Episode 28. Pick Anything and Begin: The Secret to Moving Forward

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Episode Description:

If you’ve ever felt stuck, unclear, or afraid of making the “wrong” choice — this episode is for you. Clarity doesn’t come before action, it comes because of it. In this conversation, I share how I went from studying philosophy to building a career at Microsoft, and why your path only makes sense in hindsight.

We’ll explore practical ways to get unstuck, build self-leadership, and create career clarity — not by waiting for the perfect decision, but by starting anywhere. When you act on your desires, you begin learning, growing, and moving closer to your purpose.

If you’re ready to stop overthinking and start leading yourself forward, this episode will show you why action is always the catalyst.

Outline/Transcript:

[no intro/outro]

If you’re not sure what to do or where to begin, pick anything and start anywhere. 

This nugget of wisdom came through in a reading last week, and I had to write it down. 

You see, the universe waits for you. 

We can’t simply believe something into existence. We must act on it, too.

When we develop a faith in our desires and we act in accordance to them, things start happening and fast. But the thing is – it doesn’t actually matter where we begin. It only matters that we start. 

If you went to college, think back to your time there. If you were like me, you may have had an existential crisis (or two) trying to decide what major to study. It felt like your entire life hinged on the decision to study one subject over another. 

Let me let you in on a little secret: there are few decisions that act as hinges for the rest of your entire life. Deciding what to study in college is absolutely not one of them. 

I studied philosophy and I ended up working at Microsoft as an engineer! In fact, up until after I graduated college, I had never taken a single computational class in my entire life! Who could have predicted that? No one. 

And, I guarantee if I had told people that I wanted to work for Microsoft one day, as a philosophy major, people would have laughed. Even I would have thought “Good luck with that. You’re not even studying engineering!” 

But you see – it doesn’t matter what you are doing right now as long as you are doing. The story never makes sense while you are in it. The story only comes together when you reach a milestone or destination point. 

So if you know you want to be a healer and you have no idea what that means or looks like, and right now you have a whispering desire to learn how to weave – listen to it. Learn how to weave. Dedicate yourself to the desires that are within you and stop thinking so hard about what actions you need to take toward your dreams. 

Pick anything at all and do it. Do it to completion and then move on to the next thing. You are learning about yourself when you act, and unless you do, nothing will land in your lap.

The universe waits for you. What are you doing, so that it will move you? 

Opportunities to work and move together include:

• A free masterclass on Tuesday October 4, 2022. The Inbetween–How to Lead Yourself Through the Unknown. Register/RSVP here: 

• The Quantum Sessions Experimental Mastermind kicks off on October 25, 2022 holding the hypothesis that if you show up in dedication to one thing for a full 12 months, it will transform your life, business, and success. Reach out with any questions and apply here: 

• October & November Readings, Find Your Purpose Sessions, and ad hoc coaching can be booked here: 

• I’m accepting applications for dedicated 1-1 coaching and mentorship beginning in October. Reach out with any questions and apply here: 

P.S. I know that this is all easier said than done. I know that when you know what you want, or have an idea of what you want, it’s easy to vacillate on the options and get stuck because you want to do it right. I know when you don’t know what you want, you want dreadfully to choose the right thing. 

But listen, anything is better than nothing. It’s literally anything that will lead you to the right thing. A process of elimination by trying is (much) better than getting nowhere by doing nothing. Because even in a process of elimination, you will learn worlds more about yourself and the world than you will by waiting. Do not let your life, your career, or your business pass you by because you aren’t sure what to do or where to begin. Seriously, pick anything. 

And if you need any support, I’ve got your back. 

Episodes 25-27. Full Circle Entrepreneurship: Pivoting, Purpose & Creative Alignment with Jess Blanche

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Episode Description:

In this heartfelt conversation with my friend and media manager Jess, we go deep into what it really takes to build a life and business you love. From her early experiences to seven years of entrepreneurship (coaching, EFT, art, branding and more), Jess shares how she’s repeatedly pivoted, let go, and come full circle to create work that’s both strategic and soul-aligned.

We talk about:

• The loneliness and blurred boundaries of friendships inside the coaching world.

• Why it’s okay — even necessary — to leave a business, job, or identity that once felt aligned.

• The difference between results-oriented work and heart-oriented work.

• Why “being in the energy” isn’t just high vibes — it’s about happily creating and sharing.

• How values and self-awareness become the parameters for your happiness.

• Why consistency matters, but also why stepping stones are sacred.

Whether you’re just starting your entrepreneurial journey or navigating your fifth pivot, this episode will remind you that you’re not behind — you’re becoming.

Transcript (RAW):

Marie (00:00):
We can just start here. We’ll circle back later, but since we were talking about loneliness before we hit record, I want to come back to that. What were you going to say?

Jess (01:20):
It’s fascinating. I could relate to this even before leaving my job, but especially now. It feels almost like being on an island. Coaching makes it even more complicated — when you make friends in the industry, conversations blur between friendship and coaching. You wonder: should I be paying you, or should you be paying me? It creates this odd tension.

With most coaches I’ve known or worked with, I wouldn’t just pick up the phone and say, “Hey, can you talk me through this?” I’d want to respect their boundaries. That’s why I appreciate our friendship so much — I can message you, and you can message me, and it’s mutual. That’s rare.

Marie (03:30):
Thank you for saying that, and thank you for being such a great friend. For everyone listening: Jess is an amazing human and entrepreneur. She runs her own business but also manages my media — all the podcast graphics, social media, and video edits.

We first connected on Instagram when she joined one of my masterclasses. Later I posted about hiring a VA. Jess applied, and I thought, “You’re way more qualified than a VA.” So I hired her into a different role, and we clicked instantly.

So let’s dive into your story. Start from wherever you like — before college, your formative years, or even your time living abroad. Who were you then? Who are you now?

Jess (06:50):
…

[Jess shares her early background, growing up with church as a safe space, the pull toward seminary, and eventually entrepreneurship.]

Marie (12:10):
That’s so good. It reminds me of my own experience — youth group, Bible study — being in church five or six times a week. Why didn’t you go to seminary?

Jess (18:00):
…

[Jess describes her path into entrepreneurship, seven years of building multiple businesses, from coaching to EFT to selling art to brand design.]

Marie (24:50):
I love this. You’ve pivoted so many times, gracefully letting go of what no longer felt aligned. And now you’ve come full circle — back to brand design and authentic strategy, which is where you started. It’s like every stepping stone gave you the skills to do this work better than ever.

Jess (30:00):
…

[Jess opens up about leaving businesses even when they were financially successful, and the difficulty of saying no to things that “work” but don’t feel right anymore.]

Marie (32:50):
This is so important. Many entrepreneurs feel like failures when they lose interest in what once excited them. But that’s not failure — that’s growth. It’s not just about starting when your heart says yes, it’s about honoring when your heart says we’re done.

Jess (36:00):
…

[She shares how important consistency is, the myth that “alignment makes everything easy,” and the reality that it often just means you can handle the challenges differently.]

Marie (41:00):
I love your honesty about the coaching industry, and the reminder that we don’t always see the whole picture online. What we see on Instagram often doesn’t reflect the messy reality underneath.

Jess (45:00):
…

[Jess talks about shifting toward creative work, following clarity, and why it felt like a natural step after years of searching.]

Marie (49:20):
Stepping stones aren’t just okay — they’re necessary. What we’re doing now doesn’t have to be forever. Sometimes we’re simply in the discomfort until the internal shift catches up and the external change follows.

Jess (54:00):
…

[Jess explains how clarity eventually arrived, and how vision often comes in forms no one else has modeled before.]

Marie (56:40):
That’s beautiful. One of my coaches once asked me: “If you lived at the edge of your becoming, what would that mean?” For me, it meant letting go of who I thought I was supposed to be, and who I thought I had to be.

Jess (59:20):
Exactly. The moment you let go of the identity you’re clinging to, you realize you’ve known who you are all along.

Marie (01:01:40):
Let’s talk about purpose. You did a Find Your Purpose session with me. How has your purpose shaped over time, and how do you stay connected to it?

Jess (01:02:00):
…

[She shares about values, letting go of “should” values, and discovering what really matters.]

Marie (01:07:00):
That’s such a powerful reminder — our values are literally the parameters for our happiness.

Jess (01:08:40):
…

[She reflects on her business pivots, aura painting, creative integration, and why joy in the work matters more than fitting an identity.]

Marie (01:18:45):
Yes. Alignment is simply when what you believe, what you feel, and how you act all match. When there’s discord, it’s worth investigating, not just quitting.

Jess (01:23:20):
…

[She shares about turning 40, integrating mindset work, and the importance of honoring discomfort as part of the process.]

Marie (01:25:45):
It’s like seasoning. Growth takes time. Success is never just from what you did in the last six months — it’s from everything you’ve lived and practiced up to this moment.

Jess (01:28:50):
…

Marie (01:30:10):
And that’s what makes it so inspiring. When you’re really in your groove, you even inspire yourself.

Jess (01:32:00):
…

[She shares about current projects and what she’s inviting people into next.]

Marie (01:36:30):
I’m so excited for everything you’re creating. Thank you for being here, for being a friend, a collaborator, and for bringing so much wisdom to this conversation.

Episode 24. Stop Over-Developing Yourself — Hone Your Craft Instead

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Episode Description:

This episode is a call back to the heart of why we do what we do: the work itself. I challenge the popular narrative that you must endlessly “develop yourself” before you can be good at your craft, make money, or grow in your career. Instead, I share the wisdom that devotion to your craft—actually showing up in the work day after day—is what shapes you, grows you, and naturally leads to success.

We explore:

• Why personal development adds value but isn’t the true requirement for business growth

• The danger of getting stuck in programs, books, and hacks instead of practicing your craft

• The discipline of separating yourself from outcomes (echoed by both Steven Pressfield and the Bhagavad Gita)

• How to measure success by the quality and depth of your work, not just dollars or client counts

• Why being “in the work” is both the most challenging and the most rewarding path you can take

Whether you’re knitting socks, coaching clients, leading a team, or running a heart-centered business, the question remains the same: If you had a million dollars tomorrow, would you still want to do this work? If the answer is yes, then your devotion to the craft itself is the only thing that matters.

Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.833)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover of The Corporate Psychic. Today's episode is challenging the narrative that we need to develop ourselves to be good at what we do, or to make money at what we do, or to grow in life, career, business in general. Instead, it offers the wisdom that being in the work we desire itself will be the thing that grows us. Throughout the episode, I talk a bit about

De-identifying with the work or the outcomes, as well as the importance of devotion and dedication to your craft, plus so much more. If this episode resonates with you, and you want to be in the work, the work that your heart is calling you to bring to the world in order to grow and achieve success, I invite and encourage you to apply to work with me through either one-to-one coaching or to join my upcoming mastermind, the Quantum Sessions. More info will be shared at the end of this episode and can also be found in the show notes.

As a coach, I subscribe to a lot of other coaches content, a lot of personal development and a lot of self-help. And we all say things like, nourish yourself to nourish your business. I'm pretty sure I said this last week. And I think that we're committing a gross disservice when we say this and just leave it at that. For me personally,

I have found that when I nourish myself, I do nourish my business and my business does in fact sustain or grow. However, I run a spiritual and personal development business. So it makes sense that when I'm nourishing myself and developing myself and focusing on being the absolute best being that I can be, that I would grow my business because that is the work that I do for my business. And this can be true for many coaches or spiritual or wellness professionals because for a lot of these businesses,

Being deep in the self is being deep in the work. It is practicing what we preach. It's honing our craft. However, my business runs on clients. I wouldn't be a business if people didn't purchase my services. And so being in the work is not just being in myself, it's actually being with them. And while my work

Marie Groover (02:25.929)

and similar type of work does require that we be deep in the self. Not all businesses require such deepening. Don't get me wrong. I think that every single business owner and executive and frontline employee of every single business will only benefit and that in turn businesses will only benefit through more self-dubbed, through more self-knowing, through more introspection, through more awareness, through more personal development.

I believe that personal development will only add and never detract to a business. But, big but here, it's not required, at least not explicitly and especially not in the beginning. What is required, and now I'm speaking specifically to those of you trying desperately to grow your business, your product, your team, but also to anyone trying to grow in their work or their career, is to be in the work itself.

Let me repeat that but more concisely. What is not a core requirement for a business to be successful is personal development or energetics or self-nourishing. What is required and the only requirement actually is to hone your craft. Let's talk about it. If you're starting a homemade hand knitted sock knitting business, I believe that you should spend the majority of your time knitting socks regularly.

especially if it was your love for knitting socks that planted this idea for you to start a business knitting socks in the first place. Makes sense, right? But this is so much easier said than done because what happens when we start a business is that the thing that we love so much that we want to bring to the world so much gets somehow inadvertently placed on the back burner. And we start to focus on things like marketing, websites, selling. Why are nobody, nobody, why, why is nobody buying?

Right? And these things are very important, absolutely necessary components of business, and they are just components of business. So 100 % of our time should probably not be in those, worried about those, executing on those. Because if you don't have any socks to sell, what are you marketing? What are you worrying about? What are you executing on? What are you delivering to the world? When coaches, including myself, say,

Marie Groover (04:54.391)

To grow your business, have to be your best. To be fully yourself, embrace your authenticity, be in the energy of your offers. That's only half of the equation. What you actually have to do if you wanna grow your business is to simply be in your craft, to be devoted to your craft. Because it's through this devotion to your craft that you will, one, become really fucking good at it if you aren't already, in which case you'll get even better.

And two, you will inadvertently and naturally become the best version of yourself. You'll see what you're made of, AKA know yourself deeply. You'll come to appreciate the fuck out of yourself and your work. And you will then naturally get in the energy of your offers. Thus, sell more, make more, achieve more, whatever. Nourishing yourself is a byproduct of being in your work. And being in your work is not marketing, not selling, not building a brand or a website.

You do spend time doing these things if you're opening a business by the way, because they are very important, but they are not what will grow you. They are not the thing that's going to achieve your success. Your deepest success heart, soul level success, by the way. And nor is dropping 30 K on a coach. If you're not willing to sit down and knit the socks that you're trying so desperately to sell. And I hear you. Some of you are like,

I am willing to sit down and knit these socks. But are you knitting the socks actually right now? Do you have an inventory ready to be sent out upon orders? Are you waiting for orders to come in before you begin? If you're a coach or a reader or someone who requires a booking to deliver a service, are you spending time in your own work or are you hiring a coach seeking a hack for business growth? Invest in yourself by investing in your craft.

by showing up for yourself and your work every single day, no matter what the results are, because the results for both your personal development and your craft itself are going to be huge. And still, Steven Pressfield in The War of Art says, a professional schools herself to stand apart from her performance, even as she gives herself to it heart and soul. The Bhagavad Gita tells us we have a right only to our labor,

Marie Groover (07:17.151)

not the fruits of our labor. All the warrior can give us is life. All the athlete can do is leave everything on the field. And I say that all you can do and control is what you bring to the world. You are not your craft and you are not your business. You are not the thing that you bring to the world, but you do need to give it your all. You do need to devote yourself to it because your heart tells you to, not because you want to make a million dollars.

not because you are focused on the outcome or the reward, not for the promotion, not to sell X number of socks, not to do X number of things. The outcome and the reward will be there and it will be beyond whatever your wildest dreams can imagine, but only if you show up in your craft day in and day out and let that shape you. Let that teach you, let that grow you, let that be the reward because it will.

personal development after personal development, AKA program after program, coaching and more coaching, reading books upon reading books, listening to a podcast after podcast, it will only lead to anguish when you hone all these skills within yourself, but not the discipline to put them into something real and tangible. Trust me, I have seen this time and time again. I have experienced it myself.

What if you measured your sock knitting business on the quality of the socks that you produce? What if you measured your team's work not on how many things they did, but on whether or not they did the right things and how well they did them? What if you measured your consulting business, not on the dollars you sold each month, but on the results of your clients? What if you measured your spiritual business, not on the number of clients you book, but on the depth of connection within each session or transmission?

Because to be honest, great work is rare and it's priceless. And the amount of money made means apps of fucking, lootly nothing in terms of the value of the work that you put out into the world, especially when it's good. As a consumer, when I purchase something, I want quality and I'm willing to pay for it. I want to work with those who have either been in the work, AKA I'm buying a product from them,

Marie Groover (09:37.813)

or who are willing to be in the work with me. And actually, if we're talking about who I wanna work with from a client perspective as well, the same holds true. I wanna work with clients who are willing to be in the work together, not who are simply trying to turn a profit. If you're listening, you might say, well, Marie, I wanna do heart-centered work and make a lot of money. And I say, fuck yes, that's amazing. And keep those things separate.

If you received a million dollars tomorrow out of nowhere and tied to nothing, would you still show up in the work that your heart is calling you to do? Would you still be a coach, a writer, a manager, an artist, a consultant? If the answer is yes, then great. Keep doing the work. Keep being in the work. Keep holding it in your heart, what your financial goals are and still keep them separate. Don't identify your work with the money and don't identify yourself with the work.

If the answer is no, then you may want to reconsider what it is that you're setting out to do in your business, your career, your life, if you're calling what you do a heart centered business, career, whatever. If you're clear that your business is in existence to make a bunch of money and that is it, that's great. No change required. And I hope that you're making a bunch of money by being the best product or service or offering that you can be. And I hope that you're not wasting any money on growth, energetics.

And if you have a job or career simply for the monetary exchange, I'm not judging you. I did the same thing and I'll do it again in a heartbeat if I need to. But be honest about that and stop trying to make your career the centerpiece of your life or to make it a fulfilling piece of your heart. Let it be what it is. But if your answer was yes, if you received a million dollars out of the blue and you would still want to show up in your desired work again today.

Be in your work now and let that be it. My point in all of this is that it's easy to act when there's some guarantee of reward. But as quoted in the Bhagavad Gita, we have a right only to our labor and not to the reward. And if that is true, what is worth laboring for? What is worth giving our absolute all day in and day out regardless of the outcome?

Marie Groover (12:06.241)

That's the thing to focus on. And in focusing on that, you will become the very best you that you could possibly be. You will see who you are and what you are made of. And you will very likely also see success beyond your wildest dreams. So don't hire a coach because they have made it. Hire a coach because they will keep you in your work until you have to.

Marie Groover (12:36.087)

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Spiritual 9to5 Podcast. If it resonated with you, please share it or leave a review and join the TCP community if you want to chime in with any questions or continue in the discussion. If you want support to be and to stay in your work, the work that your heart is calling you to bring to the world in order to grow and achieve success, I invite and encourage you to apply to work with me together through either one-to-one coaching or to join my upcoming mastermind, the Quantum Sessions.

Application links are in the show description and I would be happy to answer any of your questions directly at hello at the corppsychic.com. Thank you again for listening. Until next time, love.

Episode 23. Do Less, Make More (Shamelessly): My First Months Beyond Microsoft

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Episode Description:

In this solo episode, I share the messy, beautiful, and unexpected truth of life after leaving Microsoft. July 6th, 2022 marked both my last day in corporate and the eve of my 32nd birthday—a threshold into an entirely new chapter. What followed included a health scare that shook my sense of security, a surf trip to Mexico where I wrestled with “doing nothing,” and a slow, winding road trip in my van Franny that helped me begin to settle into simply being.

I talk about what it feels like to shed an old identity, why productivity is overrated, and how I re-learned to trust myself (and life) outside of a steady paycheck. You’ll hear my five biggest takeaways, from embracing the discomfort of nothingness to experimenting with a gentle weekly flow that honors both rest and creativity.

If you’re considering leaving corporate—or even just craving a new rhythm—you’ll find both permission and practical wisdom here. Because sometimes the bravest thing you can do for your business and your soul is to let go, do less, and watch life hold you anyway.

Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.885)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover of The Corporate Psychic. I'm here today to talk about life after Microsoft, what I've been up to, what it feels like to go from corporate to running my own business full time, and what I've learned so far.

July 6th, 2022 was technically my last day at Microsoft. It was also my seven year anniversary and it was the eve of my 32nd birthday. It felt like a big day, but in truth, I had been off work since the end of May, May 25th to be exact. So it was a rather slow boil to the actual crossing of the finish line. But right around my last working day,

I took a weekend to meet Sol Speer in person for the first time. Sol is the founder and CEO of Donning Digital, who I've had the amazing pleasure of working with on the development of TCP's V1 website and brand. Together we talked work, we reflected deeply, we scootered all over DC, and we created and executed our own mini tour of psychics in the area. It was a dream. The day I got back, I went for a run and around 2.5 miles away from my home, my hands started itching.

My face went numb, my feet started itching, and then my body started going numb. My vision blurred, and by the time I called 911, I could barely use my fingers or see what was in front of me. I sat on the side of the road and I worried that I might die. I knew that if I didn't die, that something serious was wrong with me, and that perhaps it was a mistake to leave a secure job with secure and amazing health benefits. I live alone, and I'm about 45 minutes away from the town where most of my friends and family live.

Because it was so late by the time I was rushed to the nearby hospital, I didn't actually call anyone to let them know what had happened or to ask even for a ride home. I was still in such shock and I had no answers for myself or to give anyone else and I didn't know how to explain, nor did I want to be a burden. So I ubered home. Let me tell you, that was weird. So a week later, equipped with an EpiPen that I didn't even know I needed, I jetted off to Mexico with three girlfriends for a proper week off.

Marie Groover (02:23.215)

filled with surfing, exploring, and feeling wonderfully guilty for doing and enjoying nothing productive. You see, since I started TCP, I have to admit that I hadn't taken any real or serious time off at all. And taking some time in Mexico while severing my Microsoft career, it felt really weird. It was the start to a new chapter and yet I was still pretty shook. I had no idea what was going on with my body.

I was terrified that even taking one week off would kill my business, and I was leaving my job of seven years, leaving corporate as I knew it after being in it for ten plus years. It could have been relaxing, but everything just felt so big, so vast, and so unknown. Coming back felt even weirder. I had some things to take care of in my hometown, and then I traveled to my sweet man's home to rest, to recover, and to build out my van. Granny.

My van, if you don't know, is a 1995 Toyota Town Ace with four-wheel drive. And the plan was to road trip slowly to Maine and make our way back down the coast. And for me to take some time off, I was reading a book called How to Do Nothing by Jenny O'Dell, highly recommend by the way. And with the way I was feeling about it, Mexico was a cakewalk. But somewhere around Acadia National Park, I did eventually settle into the vast being.

simply being. We got back home to the beach right around July 4th and I wrapped my last official day at Microsoft without being able to fully access any of the internal resources because it had been so long since I logged in with my credentials. So I simply double checked that I had completed my exit checklist and I sent off a very big email to some of the amazing folks who I had the honor to know and that was that. If you are a colleague at Microsoft that used to work with me and you happen to be listening to this,

I want to say thank you. And I also, for anyone and everyone listening, want to say that I had planned to really stretch out and almost like market the leaving of my career. I wanted to tell everyone, I wanted to meet with everyone, I wanted to share so much of what was going on with everyone through a series of emails, not just like one bang and I'm out. But considering

Marie Groover (04:51.619)

what was happening in my body, what was happening in my mind. It felt like I left the way that I had to. And so the very next day, I celebrated my 32nd birthday and I kicked off a group mentorship course and container called the Quantum Leap with 21 amazing souls. And I spent the month of July learning how to reintegrate, learning how to reintegrate a loose structure into my day.

as well as continuing to pour into myself restfully and developmentally. It's now the end of August and I'm finally settled in. I feel like I have made it. I feel like I have tasted my dream life and I have some learnings that I want to share with it. First, it's not as scary as it seems. Not having a steady paycheck is not as scary as it seems.

It's actually quite exciting because at the present I can get paid at literally any moment. Whereas in corporate or working for an employer, there's like a pay cycle, right? And it's really nice to get a steady paycheck. I'm not going to lie that felt really good, but it's actually more exciting to literally make money at any time. Second, it's underrated. And in fact, it's not even mentioned, definitely not mentioned enough the amount of

processing and shedding and integration that's required when you lay down a former version of yourself. When you quit your job, for example, when you leave your nine to five, specifically when you lay down a version of yourself who had been conditioned to live a life dictated by productivity. In June of 2021, I would have surfed, worked a full eight to 10 hour day, guided a TTP session or two and posted to social media on top of probably writing and publishing a blog or an article.

In July, August of 2022, today times, I take no more than three calls a day. Sometimes I market, sometimes I rest. Sometimes I think about strategy, but mostly I read, I write, I walk. I watch the sunset and I do the things that I desire in order to lovingly take care of myself. When I start to feel the pressure again, I pause and ask myself, what is the most loving thing I can do for myself right now?

Marie Groover (07:15.407)

And then I do that. And so I say, if you're considering a shift out of corporate, or even a shift in employers, a shift in industries, a shift in your career, whatever, I highly recommend that you take some serious time. I'm not talking like four days. I'm not talking a week. I'm not talking two weeks, I'm talking serious time, a month, two months for yourself if you can. And to not fill it up with checklists of things to do.

to instead fill it with the excruciating discomfort of nothing at all and watch how your entire being becomes whole again.

Marie Groover (07:53.049)

Third, I kind of already said this, but I'll say it directly. Human productivity is overrated. Productivity in general is overrated. My mantra for months now has been, do less, make more shamelessly. The shameless part has taken some work. Thank you, coaching. But the medicine is learning how you can nourish yourself and let that be the guiding principle of your life, of your work, of your business. You don't have to do it all.

And doing it all is actually not even going to be the things that move the needle. What I've come to learn is that when I nourish myself, I nourish my business. That I can grow immensely in rest and so too can my business. That I can drop almost all the balls and the world is still spinning. I am still me. My work still exists. My business doesn't fall apart. People don't stop showing up.

Whatever it is that feels uber important, high priority, needs to happen for yourself, for your job, for your family, I challenge you to take your hand out of it for any amount of time and watch life work itself out. You are so much less pivotal in the grand scheme of things than you think. And allow that to free you. I know that's really scary. Like we want to be in control because it means we're important, right?

but we're so much less needed than we think we are and it's such a beautiful and freeing thing. Embrace it and allow yourself to just be from time to time. You don't even have to do it all the time. Fourth, building off of this, when you allow yourself to just be the to-do list, the things you've been telling yourself you want to do or work on, the things that you say you wanna do but you don't have time to do or like,

aren't working out for you or like you feel like you have responsibilities to other things so you can't do those things. All of those things, the things that you really want to do but haven't, they all take care of themselves. My business manager and I were talking actually and she was sharing with me that she was feeling personal development burnout about a month or two ago. Together we made a pact to let everything drop and just see what happens. To bask in the nothingness as an experiment.

Marie Groover (10:17.283)

And a couple of weeks ago, we connected again and not surprisingly at all, everything that was on her list to work on, she completed without the list, without the nagging feeling in the back of her mind. You know why? Because sometimes when we lessen the pressure, when we loosen our grips, we realize that we actually desire to do the things that are good for us. And when we create the space for ourselves to just be

we be exactly who we want to become. But that comes of letting go of whoever it is you believe you are and letting go of whatever it is you believe you have to do. And allowing yourself to trust yourself because you've got your back.

Okay, five. And last thing for now, a little bit of structure, as long as you're not married to it, can actually be a really good thing. Some of you are laughing because some of you guys live in structure. And if you're like me, I'm not a super structured person. I don't thrive with structure, although I've lived the past 10 plus years of my life in a lot of structure. And so I personally needed things to be a little loosey goosey for a while.

I needed to sit in the discomfort of vast nothingness, to be reminded of who I was, to be reminded of what I was here to do, and to remember what I set out to accomplish with TCP in the first place. It can be really overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be. And now I have a general weekly flow. It's not rigid, but it acts as a guide when I'm feeling lost.

it's a Monday and I woke up less than inspired. Cool. It's content creation day. So after my slow, peaceful morning with the ocean or my partner or at the local coffee shop, I'm online by 10 and I'm writing whether I want to or not. Tuesdays are recording days. It's a Tuesday right now. Well, while I'm speaking, you may or may not be listening to this on a Tuesday. It's also pitch days and it's meet with my lovely business manager to make sure I'm not missing anything days.

Marie Groover (12:23.533)

Wednesdays are split between TCP work and TCP clients. Thursdays are dedicated to clients and any admin that comes with it. So invoicing, calendar management. This is the day that I aspire to reach inbox zero. And no, I don't do that every single day. And by don't do that, I mean I don't check my email even every single day. Fridays are for special projects, my personal development and coaching, and for me, whatever my heart wants to work on.

Sometimes that's nothing. Generally, I don't touch my computer until 10 a.m. and I'm off by two or three, unless I'm hosting a master class or event in the evening, or unless I'm really feeling it. As I said earlier, I spend a ton of time reading, reflecting, daydreaming, and of course, surfing when there are waves. I value my time over all else, and to be honest, it has only done wonders for my health, for my happiness, and also for my business.

So that's it. That's pretty much what I've been up to since I left Microsoft. I'm now preparing to host a group mastermind called the Quantum Sessions, which is a high level, high touch group mentorship program posing this question. What would happen if I show up in my business, I being you, my business being your business or idea, what would happen if you showed up consistently in your work and with immense support for 12 full months?

My hypothesis is that whatever you think is possible for you, you can 10 times it. I would have never imagined that I would be where I am today, a year before now. And if I had, I probably would have reached higher. But I have to admit, I'm living the dream and every single day gets better and better. If you're building a business and ready to scale to sustainability, I would love to hold you through 12 months of dedication in this program. Info to apply is in the show description.

Marie Groover (14:24.202)

And thank you for joining me through this episode of The Spiritual Nine to Five. If it resonated, if you can think of one person who may relate or be inspired, please like the show, rate it, and share it. This podcast is a direct piece of my heart and soul, and I am so honored that you chose to be here with me today. Until we meet again, and with heaps of love, ciao.

Episode 22. When You Don’t Know What to Believe, Believe Yourself — Redefining Success with Rita Ellen Mirchandani

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Episode Description:

In this intimate conversation with my spiritual mentor Rita Mirchandani, we unpack what “success” really means when your business is an extension of your soul. We move from external metrics (money, followers, launches) to internal measures (contentment when you’re alone, alignment, meaningful connection). We talk about sourcing safety from within, the difference between trauma responses and intuition, and the power of the pause—that tiny beat before you act that aims your energy (think: the soccer kick, the duck-dive under a wave).

You’ll hear about lowering prices to come back into integrity, letting go of performative productivity, and why sitting in “nothingness” often changes everything. We go tender and real on identity, shadow work, discomfort, and being fully seen in love and in work—plus a few “universe winks” (free lemons, surprise credits) that reminded us abundance is everywhere. If you’re building a spiritual business—or building a life that feels like you—this one is a grounding breath.

You’ll learn:

• A gentler success metric you can use today

• How to tell intuition from a nervous-system flare

• Why the pause before action is your superpower

• Ways to spot the area you’re avoiding (and how to lovingly shake it up)

If this episode resonates, share it with someone who’s redefining success on their own terms.

Transcript (RAW):

Speaker 2 (00:00.11)

Yeah, no, it's, I'm so to be here. Okay, so we're live. Yeah, and I'm just gonna repeat this again. We can edit out anything, so. So where should we begin?

Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:29.954)

I guess what comes to me immediately is what's on your heart today.

Yeah, that's on my heart today. I think there are a things for sure. So many things actually huge, huge thing on my heart comes back to what we were just talking about pre hitting the cord, just around what it means to be successful in the spiritual business and spiritual realm, how to navigate between logic, reason, what makes sense.

how to lean into our intuition, how to follow really our hearts when we're in a space of

running a spiritual business.

And beyond. So really how to follow our hearts, I would say just in general life, especially like in uncertainty. And then how to like with that, something that's been coming up a lot for me is like how to navigate the like fear, the anxiety and the overwhelm that can come with not just being on a spiritual path, but being on a spiritual path and in business also and sustaining ourselves financially.

Speaker 1 (01:47.884)

Yeah, this is really great. All of these things. And what's so cool is that since we just started recording immediately, what I've been feeling in my heart just for like the last minute is when you don't know what to believe, believe in yourself.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:03.232)

And I think this is maybe a good starting point. I think, I don't know if you resonate with this, but what I've noticed really big going on in our world right now is you don't, we don't know what to believe. And this is because there's so much going on that's contradicting each other. So.

I'll use even the, you know.

our media, our news. There's conflicting.

Speaker 1 (02:35.906)

resources being shared everywhere. And what this does is that it creates an internal and external belief of, don't know actually what I can latch onto. Maybe in the past, it would have been easier to latch onto something. And I think when that happens, the only place that we can actually start to look is within. And so I think that's a big starting point for what we might talk about today is when that happens, do you keep trying to find places externally to believe in and to look at?

or is it time to become internal and start believing in that that's within you?

Speaker 2 (03:13.012)

I love this so much. And this resonates so deeply. My whole body has chills right now. It's like this external versus internal, not even validation, but like fully sourcing, right? Like where are we sourcing? What I was talking about last night in my masterclass is like my journey to sourcing safety, security and stability in my own life. And how I think as I've grown,

I'm like vibrating.

Speaker 2 (03:41.88)

There's been a huge part of me that always sourced that from within that has given me some certainty on a path forward. And then there's been a huge also part of me that sourced that from outside of me in terms of even what safety means, even what security means, even what life it was that I should be living was all based on external resources and external like stories and external media and guidance of who I should be and how I should be.

where it took me so many years to even come to this place of one, balancing internal versus external, and then two, actually beginning to let go of the external altogether and focusing on the internal and letting that expand and grow and guide me. So yeah.

And going on that path too, and talking about like, especially if you're someone who is either interested in starting a spiritual business or something, your own business, whether it's spiritual or not, what often can happen that I noticed myself falling into, and I don't know if you resonate with this, is that I had to look at what does success mean on a spiritual business path. And I had this like talk with myself a few weeks ago. So I had the belief that

based on what I saw on social media, and this might just be me, that when you start your coaching business, a threshold of success is how many people you're working with and how much money you're making. That's the parameter. And there's often a lot of sharing about how you can make this amount of money, you can do this. And while that's all great, somewhere in the process, I realized that that wasn't actually my parameter of success. It was something that

I just kept following because I thought that that was what it was. And you actually saw this. lowered my coaching prices a few months ago because I realized is this Rita's call or is this just something I've been following because it's something I see everywhere. And what this did was it shifted me back into alignment. And my parameter of success has widely changed since then. And I'm sharing this because I think maybe others might resonate with this.

Speaker 1 (05:51.182)

you're basing your parameter of success based on what you see others doing, you'll never feel successful. You'll never feel happy or fulfilled. Most people who start in a spiritual coaching business, what I would say could be a equal parameter of success is if you're able to fill your salary that you made working another job on your own terms, is that not like incredible? Not even reaching a million dollars, just literally 50,000, 60,000, 100, whatever it is that's

equal to what you were at before, isn't that like almost like a miracle or unbelievable?

Oh my goodness. It's, it is such a miracle. Oh, I love this so much because I've been feeling this as well in the last few months and having these same conversations with myself. So all of this resonates so deeply where I've shifted. I think when I started my business, it was this idea of, it wasn't even idea. was this exploration of self and exploration of my own spiritual practice and then exploration of sharing that with the world and what would that even look like and how would that be? And so.

My parameters of success at that time were literally just like, how good does this feel? And like, how much can this expand? And like, will people even want to work with me? And I remember just being so excited working with you actually being like, oh my gosh, like I'm working with these people or I've done these readings or these are the things that I'm learning. And it was really like, my success was all based on what I was learning and how I was feeling. And then over the course of months in time that shifted. And I had probably a solid month long period where, well, a few weeks period where I totally was sucked into that.

realm of how much money am I making? How many people am I serving? How many followers do I have? How many people are converting into like wanting to work with me? What does that look like? And then even actually sharing that and talking about that. And it's funny because I built a whole program almost around like building, like moving from side hustle into full-time business and shifting out of your nine to five. When, when I began, that wasn't even why I started, right? Like I started because we can have it all and do it all. And I kind of consciously became aware of this through the process.

Speaker 2 (07:57.546)

over the course of the last few weeks and months have been really almost stripping back down. What does success mean for me? And what does that look like? And what does that feel like? And is it even rooted in money? And so I actually did the same thing. lowered my prices because I realized money isn't the most important thing to me. And I'm not doing this for the money. I'm actually doing this for the joy that it brings to me, right? And for the impact into the world. And I think something that you said to me, that you actually said to me, and then also like,

shared openly over Instagram was just coming back to that question of what really matters. And I've really been focusing and thinking on that of what really matters. And this miracle of like, yes, even making the amount of money that you made is great. But what if we even strip that back more and ask ourselves, how much money do we need to make? Do we need to make the salary that we used to have? Or are we actually okay and sustainable with less than that?

Or do we need more than that to be nourished, right? Like this question of what really matters and like, what will nourish us so that we can continue to stay and operate and be in the core and the root of what actually does matter.

100%. And I think this is like really easy and almost maybe just a passage of growth, right? When you're learning these things and navigating it. And once you know it, then it's easier to just be like, okay, what does really matter? But what I know for me was that when I first started my spiritual journey, the thing, and maybe this relates to you too, the thing that made me in love with it was just, I felt so connected to everything around me. I wasn't obsessed with one thing. I was just like the universe, everything. So over the last few months, I'm like,

when I started asking myself, is success? I was like, that was successful. That was when I was the most happy. Like I've never been so lit up. And I noticed I had given some of that away unintentionally by focusing on goals and things that they weren't aligned anymore. They might've been at a certain point, but just not anymore. And so over the past few weeks, I've been really trying to tap into that and being like, okay, well, universe, if I'm not focused on the financials, then how do I tap back into this? Cause last time I did it, I didn't have a business. had

Speaker 1 (10:04.62)

I was just free flowing, just exploring the world, right? There was no monetary thing. And what the universe has shown me was that I was forgetting that it's everywhere. Everything's abundance, everything you can tap into. And so I was like, okay, well, universe, can you like really show me examples of this? And if you ask the universe to show you examples, it will. And just that.

day, had two things happen. The first one was I went to Whole Foods and I was, I wanted to make all these smoothies. And so I bought eight lemons. And I know that sounds like a lot, but I was debating whether to get the organic or non-organic because the organic was a dollar more per lemon. And I was like, you know what? It's I'm doing juicing. I'm going to, I'm going to get the $8 more lemons, whatever. And I go to check out and the woman,

takes my credit card and she goes, that's funny. It didn't ring up any of your lemons. I guess you're meant to have them for free. And so I was like, okay, universe. So I got all these lemons, know, she, the whole foods lady just gave them to me. was like, no, I'm more than happy. She's like, no, really take them. And I was like, okay. And then later on that day I go to Nordstrom and I had to make a return on a shirt and long story short, basically they ended up.

saying that they overcharged me for the shirt and they gave me a $25 gift card. And I'm like, I don't think this is right. And she's like, no, it's right. And, so that was just like the universe, like winking at me being like, did you forget? Did you forget? And I was like, I forgot. I forgot that there's an infinite amount of ways that things can just flow and happen to us and we can't expect them. never expected them. And I, you know, it was just the universe winking.

So I think when we can be more in that, we can be connected to our spiritual journey and remember the miracles that are constantly surrounding us in little ways.

Speaker 2 (12:04.704)

my goodness, Rita, I love this so much. And it's, it reminds me even of two things, just one, like as we become more and more connected to our purpose, to who we are, to why we're here, to what really matters to the core, the possibilities truly become so limitless in terms of what we can do, how we can make money, how we can tap into what we need. And I don't even want to say make money, how we can sustain ourselves. Right. So like how

resources end up coming to us. And then the other thing that I've been really thinking about, but this morning as I was surfing, was literally duck diving under this wave. Like, and all these thoughts were flowing through me around specifically the expectations that come when we start on this particular path. And like here, I think we could say like being in a spiritual business or running any type of business. Like once you start, start a business and kind of walk down this path, you start to expect

that you do action A and result B comes forward, right? You do X, Y, and Z, and then you make money. You post on Instagram, and then someone wants to work with you. Or you, I don't know, write a blog post and 10 more people follow you, or whatever the expectation is. We almost start doing and sourcing based on what we expect to happen. And then we can.

maybe like lose our light here as well whenever the things that we expect don't come to us. But what was coming to me as I was surfing this morning and literally like going under the water was this realization of how can we let go of the expectations and realize that's so much more than what we could even in our minds comprehend will come to us in ways that we have again, no real idea how or why or what they'll even be right. There is no actual predefined path. And I think

We know that we're on the right path when it's like not a path that someone else has walked, when it's not a path that's been laid out in front of us, when there is literally no expectation that we can have in front of us because we're forging that path as we go, you know?

Speaker 1 (14:07.79)

100%. I love that. It's not paved wherever you're going. Or if you're following your own path, it's not paved, which means that it's going to be, you know, there's going to be unexpected things and you won't necessarily have someone else to look for for those answers. Only that's literally the, have to go within for that.

Speaker 2 (14:32.046)

Yeah, so when it comes to then parameters for success in your spiritual business, how are you redefining those now?

Good question. Number one is, I happy? If I'm doing this work and I don't feel that, maybe not happy is the right word, but that deep sense of connection to the universe. Like one, I'm not serving myself and I'm not serving anyone I work with. Like that's not authentic to who I am. And of course that doesn't mean I don't have bad days. Like we're all human beings, but that's my original intention for why I did this. So.

Anytime I feel like I'm not connected to that is a sign of, like you need to readjust. and actually Jay Shetty said something the other day that I really resonated with, which I've also been using as a parameter of success, which is when you're by yourself and there's no one with you, you know, you're meditating, you're alone in your car. Do you feel content with your life? And that is a question I've been asking myself like a lot lately. And like, I feel like I'm back in it. but I definitely felt like a little bit.

like, hey, you need to redefine. And when you know that though, it's so easy to come back into alignment, just knowing the right question to ask. If the answer is no, you're like, okay, great. Now what gets me back there? So that's the number one thing for me for success. And then number two is definitely meaningful connections. Like,

Yeah, I feel like I really do feel like I'm the luckiest person to do what I do. Like this has been, I don't even know how, I just feel really blessed to do what I do. And that's something I remind myself of every single day. Like the fact that I get to have these kinds of conversations and connected to the universe and that that's my career. And it really is me. It's just me, but it's also turned into a career, which is really, really cool.

Speaker 2 (16:31.644)

my goodness. I resonate with both of these so deeply, so much. I was just talking with someone. I think I've even said this to you last night, just about back when I was in college, I took this class called, Dying and the Meaning of Life. And a professor came in, so good. And the first thing he said, the first day of class, the first thing he said to us, walked in the room and said, if you were gonna die one month from now, what would you do? And...

everyone had all of these answers of all the ways that they would change their life and all the things that they would do or cram in before the month was over. And I realized in that moment that like, wow, I remember being like, holy shit, I wouldn't do anything differently. I would literally continue living my life every single day, exactly the way I'm living it right now. And I was like, wow. And it was that moment that made me realize too, I must be really happy. you're right, happy is not the right word, but it was like this deep sense of connect,

contentment and fulfillment in like the mundane, ordinary existence that I was living because I wasn't doing anything super impactful. I wasn't changing the world. I wasn't even really like deeply connected with a lot of people around me, right? Like I was literally living this mundane, ordinary existence, but so deeply rooted and connected in myself. And in like this learning of wisdom as I was studying philosophy that I was just, I felt so happy and fulfilled. And I realized

you know, maybe five or six years later, I found myself in a position of living a life that was completely out of alignment. And I, it's funny because I was driving down the road one day and I asked myself that same question of if I were going to die a month from now, four months from now, six months from now, two years from now, what would I do? What would I do differently if I knew? And I realized everything in that moment, everything, I would change everything that I was like the way that I was currently living and existing. And so I think this is such a beautiful parameter of success.

like in our personal lives, but especially in our businesses, because oftentimes we look at these two things differently where we think our business, again, needs to be defined by like metrics. How much money are we making? Are we as successful as the people around us who are doing the same things? What does success even mean? Are we productive? Are we moving every day, right? Like, are we, especially in the space of like spirituality and personal development, are we developing ourselves? I was just talking to someone else who was thinking about joining another course or program.

Speaker 2 (18:54.092)

And while I'm a coach, actually said, what if you just didn't? What if you just like looked inside yourself and realized you have the answers already and you don't need to like move on to the next thing to like, to, reach whatever rung you're trying to reach on the ladder. Right. So I think that's so, so beautiful. It's like alone. Do you feel content with yourself? Do you feel content with your life? Do you feel content with the work that you're doing? it's so beautiful.

future.

Speaker 1 (19:08.942)

you

Speaker 1 (19:22.122)

what I love all of that and I agree with you too like what comes to me immediately is like this is I guess the third parameter if I was to make it up right now because it just came like how is my life being shaken up so I think stagnancy for me is a huge area where I am very dissatisfied so if I if my life becomes stagnant it doesn't feel good for long and maybe this is for many of us and

Like when you kind of said that about the courses, what came to me is like, will that course shake up your life? Like, and is that shake up actually needed right now? Because sometimes we become addicted to, like self-development, but to the point where it's actually not helping. Like we're, haven't even processed the other stuff or like lived our life, right? So knowing when you need to shake up, when you don't, like if we're really stuck in patterns, not even in a business sense, but this was more for me in a,

relationship sense. So a lot of my learning over the past, especially three years has been with relationships, like romantic relationships. And what I noticed when I started this spiritual journey was I would be afraid to tell men what I did. you know, and it may be other people listening, whether you're man or woman can relate, but

what I would find is I'd be on dates and I'd be like, oh yeah, I kind of do, I do coaching, like life coaching, know, like, what they're feeling. And then I'd be like, and it's a little bit spiritual. And then I was like, what are you doing, Rita? Do you hear yourself? Like, are you kidding me at the moment? Who's talking? Like you have a whole Instagram dedicated to this. What are you, you know, and they'd be like, do you have Instagram? And I'd be like, nah, like, you know. So what I did was then,

I was attracting people though that then would reflect back to me this, right? So they'd be like, that's weird. Or like, they would see my crystal or something and, know, just like make fun of it basically. And it kept me in this cycle. And I was like, all right, Rita, we're going to shake stuff up. Like if this was an area of your life, or if I was going to die in a month, would I have been satisfied with the quality of people that I was meeting? to some degree, of course, yes. But to another, I was like, no, there's a part of me that wants to be seen on such a deeper level.

Speaker 1 (21:37.432)

So I just went on my dating apps and I just basically put on a witch. and if you're gonna hang out with me, like understanding that I have a spiritual business is really important. And all of a sudden the gates opened and the people I met, whether it ended up just being a friendship or more, it was incredible. But it took me shaking up literally all of that. And that's the example that comes to me where like,

Jesus.

Speaker 1 (22:05.58)

the people could come in. But until I was willing to shake up myself and put myself out there, nothing changed.

my goodness, I love this so much. It's like, there's so many parallels too, like in the relationship sense, in the career sense, in the business sense. Like, first of all, I have to say, I resonate with this so much. It's even just so, I just started seeing this new person who is like maybe one of the most amazing, kind, wonderful, deep people I've ever met. And I've been very open about

my work and what I do and things like that. I I think probably there's still room for me not to hold back quite as much, right? But it's funny because I was meeting this new group of people and we're all having dinner and know, like these friends are like, what do you do? And I was like, oh, actually, I work for Microsoft, but I'm quitting my job. And like, I won't be working there for, you know, in the next few weeks, I'm out and

and I own a spiritual business, but I actually didn't even say that I said, oh, and I have my own business on the side. I do like psychic readings. And I just like through like very directly through that out there. So I was like, what's going to happen if I do this? And I definitely got those like a little eyebrow raise, right? But also like total acceptance of like, oh, okay, that's really cool. Let's talk more about that, right? Like, let's talk really, talk really deeply about that. And what I've learned is as I've opened myself more in this space,

the depth of conversations that come from that have been so just like enriching and soul filling and just exactly the things that I've been wanting and needing where what you mentioned before is when I held back there, there would be a level of not even just depth that was missing, but almost a level of discomfort or conflict of I'm not able to express my full self. And it's no one's fault but mine, right? Like it's me that's doing that. It's nothing else.

Speaker 2 (24:10.006)

I love this so much because it parallels into like the career and into the business world too, because a lot of people that I work with are scared to put themselves out there in the realm of their spiritual business. And a lot of people are like, I need to quit my job in order to start this business. And to this, say, actually, I was literally just talking about this last night too, in the masterclass of notice how you show up in your current career. Like notice how you show up in your life today, right now, your career, your family relationships, your

and how much of yourself do you actually show? How much of yourself do you, how much of yourself you actually been connected to enough that you can like, and what safety do you have you created in yourself so that you can fully be authentic in whoever it is that you are, whatever it is that you're interested in, whatever it is that you work on, what you really truly care about, what matters the most to you, right? Like how much of that are you showing in your career? And then what are the thoughts that are going through your mind as you're working in your nine to five that you hate?

Right? Like how are you able to spiritually be a hundred percent present in a job that isn't satisfying you? What do you do about that? How do you react? What do you say to yourself in those situations? What do you say to yourself when you're meeting someone new and you don't want to tell them what you do or what you're interested in? Like what's the story there? Because whatever that is, when you do quit your job, when you do end your relationship, when you do find someone that's at the frequency you want to be at, it's important to be aware of

the thoughts that existed in these other spaces because they're actually going to carry over, right? Like the places we inhibit and hold ourselves back in our relationships and our careers and our lives are the same exact places and stories that we use to inhibit ourselves and sabotage ourselves in our businesses and in our own development, right? And so I love like even coming back to that addiction of personal development, like there is a level of how much are we distracting ourselves from our

core from what's inside of us, from what really matters to us by using personal development outwardly or by using our careers or whatever the thing is, right? Like how much are we distracting ourselves by what's actually going on within by just not even being honest outwardly of what's going on within and focusing on just like the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and the next thing or the numbers or the measures of success or the people who accept you or the...

Speaker 2 (26:28.994)

the quote unquote connections that we have that are not again rooted from the heart. So I think this is so beautiful because I think when we are distracted, that's gonna become stagnant, right? Like when we do let ourselves move away from the heart space, that is when we stop, we could say moving, because we're always moving no matter what, but that's when we really don't feel that movement, right?

1000%. And I think there's like so much good stuff and then so much to break, to break down. But I love that you just fully expressed yourself. Like I do psychic readings point statement. And then like, you know, there's kind of like sometimes that awkward like pause, but honestly, think when you're shattering realities are like just changing up what's normal to talk about or in that group dynamic, there's going to be a little bit of like an uncomfortable pause. And that's okay. And that's good. Like,

That's good, actually, you know, and I think just being okay in those moments and like, can hold, I don't need to over justify, I don't need to explain it. can just, you know, until the conversation continues, it's so powerful. And yes, to being distracted too, where I mean, I think distraction, I don't know the actual definition, but if I had to guess, it's probably like avoiding what is or, you know, and if we think about that for a minute,

Thanks

Speaker 1 (27:51.98)

wonder why we would avoid what is, I don't really know. It's such an interesting human thought, because it's uncomfortable. So I guess this all comes back to being uncomfortable and being okay being uncomfortable and being okay making others uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (28:11.884)

Yeah, I think that that's what a lot of this breaks down to. And maybe that's also a metric of how you can define if you're, I don't want to say successful, but if you are fully in alignment, maybe being uncomfortable as part of it.

I love this so much. do think you're absolutely right. Like what a good question. Why would we avoid what is? And I do think the discomfort of what's, what actually is, what is present is so real. And there's also this important distinguishment between, because I think immediately about, especially in personal development, there's this almost like,

aching push for if you're not uncomfortable, you're not on the right path. If you're not on like be uncomfortable, the thing that makes you uncomfortable. And I actually, agree and disagree with that. think oftentimes our level of discomfort does very much indicate that we're doing the right thing, right? Because oftentimes when we do the right thing, the thing that scares us is the thing that is going to unlock the next level of growth. And there can still be addiction to that. I'm going to make myself uncomfortable and I'm going to expand. I'm going to make myself uncomfortable and I'm going to expand. But it's like, how do know that you're

uncomfortable in the right places and the right areas and that you're not just again, avoiding what actually is right? Like how can we sit with what is and this is like so I have chills again, because this is like, it's, it's what I've been meditating on, probably for the last almost month, especially as I leave my job, really getting comfortable with not just uncertainty, but just

You too.

Speaker 2 (29:50.734)

the potential for nothing, the potential for spaciousness. And I'm what I'm really learning again and again, because I've learned this, think, before and before and before and before, as we often have to do sometimes, but that when we have time and space and openness, we tend to fill it, right? Like whenever we, when we have an opening, we put something there. When we have no plans, we make a plan.

And I think this is true in our businesses as well. And oftentimes I think what we do avoid is literally nothing, like capital N, nothing. And this is why we keep moving and this is why we keep doing and this is why we look at metrics and this is why, like, and I'm not sure, like, this is such a good question. Like, why would we avoid what is, because I do think discomfort is part of it, but like, there's something deeper there, I feel of, like, why would we avoid nothing?

What does that mean? You know, what, or what meaning do we place on that? and yeah, and I say this because the more I work with and explore the nothingness, the more I realized that it's actually the nothingness. It's the spaciousness that allows us to one, even listen to hear tap into our intuition. And then two, it's the nothingness and spaciousness that allows us to actually express and say what

matters. Like that's what allows us to connect to what really matters. But oftentimes we fill up all of the nothingness with some things. Yeah, and then I think in doing that, we forget what matters, right?

I think you're, I think you're very right. And also like what comes to me too, is that the uncomfortableness we might be talking about, like even that we can trick ourselves into believing we're constantly doing it when we do it in areas we're comfortable in. So for example, it's like, well I just invested in this program. I just did this again. And it's like every time it's a stretch. Yes, but it's an area that we're already comfortable stretching in. So, right. Like maybe it's like, I'm totally not comfortable.

Speaker 1 (31:59.106)

maybe doing like a photo shoot or something, right? Like, so we avoid it because that area feels like, nope, or I'm not comfortable making a video online, but I'll keep stretching by, you know, growing my portfolio here or whatever the story is, because it's different for all of us. So I think that's where maybe imbalance starts to happen is when we're neglecting one area. So for an example, for anyone listening is I've gotten very good at hard conversations in business.

and I would neglect it in my personal relationships. And it wasn't until I realized that there was something different going on in both that I realized, you're comfortable doing this in business, because that's what you've worked on in corporate. You had to get very used to that. But in personal ones, you would ignore it. And so because you have felt uncomfortable. So being aware of that gives us a lot of power.

Oh goodness, so much power. Yeah, so much power. so how do we know, like, let's go into this more. I'm curious from you, like, how do we know what we're really neglecting and what we need to, I wanna be careful in using the word need because I don't think we need to do anything, but, you know, how can we become more and more aware of the areas that we're neglecting?

or maybe distracting ourselves from or distancing ourselves from so that we can then, if we choose to, get to the core of what's driving that.

So I can only speak for me and maybe this will help. Like I had to look at what were my desires for this lifetime. Like, did I only want to do doing business? I want a partner? Do I want a house? Do I want to travel? Like, what are my desires in life? And then with the way I'm acting right now, am I co-creating those desires in every area? So I can want a partner, but if I'm not willing to have the uncomfortable conversations in that area, that's

Speaker 1 (33:56.566)

that desire is unable to come into fruition until I focus on it. So, and that's something I'm very conscious of, because it's something I've been, that's the area I've been focusing on more. And for everyone though, it's different, right? Like you might, like, let's say that you're someone who really wants to have a certain amount of money, like saved in your bank account, but you refuse to look at it. Like you're kind of like, I'm not,

I don't want to talk to an accountant, don't, you the avoidance. Are you cultivating an atmosphere where that can heal? And you'll know because you feel that like tension in your stomach when you think of doing it, like that's usually a great indicator. That's where to look. Or if you get defensive about an area, like that's usually a great indicator that there could be something that your soul desires that you're neglecting.

Yeah. I love this so much. Like, what are you cultivating? Are you cultivating the environment that's going to allow you to have the things that you want? Are you even working? And I, you even working towards your desires? But like, by working, I mean, are you even conscious of your desires, right? Are you conscious how you're allowing space for your desires to come into fruition? I think this is so important. And I would say, or ask really again, more like, what are your desires then?

when it comes to business, like where does business fit in the scheme of your entire life, especially being that you're in spiritual business? How dedicated and devoted do you feel you need to be? And I'm asking this question because a lot of times people come to me and they have this belief of I can't be successful and have a relationship or a successful marriage or a family or the things that people desire outside of just work and business, right?

I think this is really important to understand, like even just from your perspective, where does this fit in your life? And then how might this look for others as well?

Speaker 1 (35:52.256)

Yeah, that's a great question. So for me, my spiritual awakening was very radical, meaning like it completely changed my life very fast. And then I didn't know that it would be a business or like that it would be who I am, what I'm doing. And so what started to happen was I started to think this was about like last year, there was a point where I thought, well, maybe I should take a step back and like be a bartender and reconfigure. Like I was like, this just feels very overwhelming.

I'm getting a little bit lost. Like I feel disconnected. And this goes back to again, the measurements of success. And what I realized was that energetically, I felt like I didn't have a choice. Like I felt like even if I tried to go to corporate, like I didn't have a choice. And this made me feel suffocated. it, instead of it feeling empowering, it was like, you literally, your soul signed up for this. This is what you're doing. And that doesn't feel good. Like even if that's the truth, like that, and I don't know if that's the truth, but that didn't feel good.

So I needed to come back to this question of how do I want to be of service? And when I'm in this energy, I show up so much, at least for me, I show up just like so easily. Everything feels good. There's nothing wrong. Like I just enjoy these conversations. Like life is amazing. So I was coming from a, have to do this energy because I felt I didn't have a choice versus like, how can I just connect with the universe and be of service?

And when I think like that, I can't think of myself doing anything else. And that feels like very empowering. So it really depends. A lot of this is about intention, being really honest with yourself. because sure, I could go back to corporate. I could go do other things, but I had this like come to, I had this come to moment, which was like, what would your life look like if you did that? Would you be like, would that meet your requirements for success? And the answer was immediately no.

maybe that could change in the future, right? But I had to really sit and be asked these, myself these hard questions of why are you doing what you're doing? And I think often there can even be this ego, this has happened for me, which was like, well, I meant to be doing this. And that's actually from ego. And I had to really accept that within myself of like, okay, well, without that story of like, you have to be doing this or you should be doing this, would you be doing this? And the answer was yes. So.

Speaker 2 (37:56.43)

you

Speaker 1 (38:14.902)

It's showing up for the sake of showing up, not because it's what my soul signed up to do. It's just literally like, if I'm going to be here and on this earth and I'm going to get to choose what I do, is this what I choose? And the answer was yes.

I love this so much and, man, I love this so much. And there's so much resonance here. And then how have you navigated this like desire to show up in your business while reconfiguring what your parameters are for success and beginning to look outward, I don't wanna say outward of your business, inward of yourself for the other desires that you have in your life. So like, how are you integrating business with?

your personal life and with your relationships, romantically, friendship wise, family wise, how is that? How do you manage all of that?

Yeah, great question too. So, well, I'm actually dating someone at the moment and he's helped me a lot because he's very much, he's an entrepreneur and he asks me really hard questions. So he's constantly questioning, making me question everything. Like I would say he's much more of like a philosopher than like following the spiritual path. But I think he does that more to like get my brain thinking. And for me having people around me like that,

I now know is a constant desire for myself because what this does is it keeps me constantly in check with my intentions and where I'm going. So for example, this past weekend, him and I were talking and we had like a two and a half hour talk where I was explaining my business and he was kind of making like asking a lot of questions and he actually led me to a huge breakthrough. And it was because it was just question after question that

Speaker 1 (40:02.368)

I find hard to get to on my own. So that's something that's important in my life is that there are people around me who constantly ask me hard questions that hold me back or that hold me in alignment with who I want to be. And so that's really uncomfortable conversations. Like I could feel myself getting a little bit like emotional, like it doesn't work this way. I've tried this, this doesn't work. And he's like, okay, we'll just go a little further. You know, and I was like,

Okay. And then it led to this huge release. So I don't know if that fully answers it because I'm still kind of navigating this, like figuring it out. But I do know, I feel in alignment. Like I feel like this is where I'm meant to be. And it's a moment of like trial and error. A lot of that and having people around me who

are willing to just experiment. Like experimenting in any capacity, I'm always down for that. And I feel like I don't do well when I'm around people who don't push me to experiment.

I love this so much. I want to just validate that this makes perfect sense and totally answers the question and even deepening more into it. I want to highlight or illuminate that, you know, for you to even have this, to have relationships that are able to open you through hard questions and keeping you in alignment with yourself.

you first have to be open yourself to like what's inward, right? And share what's really deep inside of you with those around you, which is difficult. And then on top of that, you have to be willing to like really embody your true self, right? Like your highest self. If you embody the work it is that you're bringing forth into the world, almost like shamelessly and unabashedly and so vulnerably so that people can ask you the really hard questions, right?

Speaker 2 (42:00.086)

And I want to say this and highlight this specifically because I think a lot of times whenever we have spiritual awakening or even start deep personal development or start a business because business, starting a business is a spiritual awakening and does require really deep personal development and just pushes you off the cliff of like who you thought you were. Oftentimes it does shake up our life and we feel that the people around us are not supporting us.

But what we find is that once we truly open ourselves and become vulnerable and real and honest with what's within, the people around us actually are supporting us and like will push us and support us to like grow and deepen, whether that be in current relationship or in new relationship or, you know, even family and friends. had a breakthrough with my mom yesterday, actually, where I think both of us were on different stories and telling different stories and triggering each other at like past wounds when

we got to the heart of the matter, we realized we share the same thoughts and feelings and desires for each other and like, you know, desires for happiness and contentment. So it's really beautiful. I want to touch into this though, because this is something that I know we talked about in the past, as you're being asked these hard questions, and specifically, when you're working with someone that you might say is a little bit more philosophical, I resonate with this because I oftentimes in the same way I push and push and push with my friends. And

I find that there's this really interesting balance that I have not yet mastered between the logical mind and we could say like the heart or the intuitive mind or the feeling, right? Like there's a knowing, this deep knowing that we have. And then there's also this like, I don't even want to say logical mind, let's say like rational mind or a human mind or maybe even slightly ego mind. But I think,

sometimes we feel there's this battle going on between like what's reasonable and what works and what our mind wants and says, and then what we feel or know really deeply in our heart, but yet maybe we can't articulate fully. And so because the articulations there, maybe it feels less logical or feels less reasonable, but actually is. so I'm curious, as you're talking about being pushed in hard questions, how do you navigate that and almost integrate the heart and the head together?

Speaker 2 (44:21.408)

when it comes to your business, but also just when it comes to yourself and what you believe.

Yeah, such a good question. Oh my goodness, I have chills. So there's kind of two points to this, which I want to reflect back, which was like for me, what I found throughout my life, when I don't ask or have someone at people in my life who asked me the hard questions I learn in really difficult ways. So for me, it became a non-negotiable to constantly have and maybe why I'm attracted to partners or people that are like this, not everyone, like of course, but with my consent, like

in that conversation I had this week and I was asking him, I'm like, I kind of knew I was like charging in there like, okay, so can you help me with this? And I knew, I knew that this was going to be that he even said, are you sure you want like to have this conversation? And I was like, yes, I want this. Because I knew that we could have this amazing connection. And it was beautiful. And I even had a an old spiritual teacher who she doesn't do one on ones anymore. But when she did, I would get scared before we would talk. And I

And what I realized was like, wait, is this because, you know, I knew there was nothing wrong with her. Like she was incredible, but what I noticed was she's not going to bullshit me. She's going to tell him she's going to hit me directly where I need to look. And I'm going to have to radically look at this. And I liked that. I was like, this is who I need. Because for me, that's the way I work. Others, you know, and sometimes I have more delicate times in my life where I'm like, I really need you to sugar coat this like lovingly. And then other times I'm like, just tell me where it is so I can fix it.

or I can go into it. And what I would say about the intuition of this is like, I know that that's what works for me at certain points. And then other times I'll literally tell people like, I really just need you to tell me you love me right now. And like, that's it, like no hard conversation. So it's all about knowing what works for us. But have you seen Top Gun? Anyone? Okay.

Speaker 2 (46:15.03)

in her.

I haven't seen the new one, the old one.

I think in both of them, haven't seen the old one in a while, but I just saw the new one this past weekend. And obviously like they're flying these like really expensive jets. And one thing he says in it, which I think kind of defines the line between logic and intuition, right? When you're flying a fire or a jet like that, and you're in the military, obviously most of the time you're told you're going to assume that's a logic thing, but it's not. He even says in the movie, he's like, don't think like your body and your soul.

He doesn't use those words, but I would use those words. Soul knows what to do. So when you're in life or death situations, how do we just know what to intuitively do? Oftentimes our intuition is just like that first impulse. It's when it's when we sit in it too long that things become blurry. So, what I've started to do even now, and I've actually done this in yoga is like, even when the teacher's just saying what to do, I'm already doing it because I'm like, you already know. And this is like a great way to train our.

mind and body to kind of come into that, where I don't think we need to sit in our intuition as long. Like you can almost just start to flow with it and really go into it. Cause I think, especially when you start a business, you go more into the logic of how does this work? And that's totally natural. And there's like definitely good, good to that. But for me, it's become important to still be in the intuition. So I'm acting more about like just immediate, like what wants to come up and not.

Speaker 1 (47:45.41)

holding myself back, like, does this make sense? Is this what to do more just following that initial reaction?

I love this so much. have to say that, especially when it comes to my business, actually, any time, in all the moments where I found the most success in the traditional sense, like when we're talking about money and measurements and metrics, it has always come from when I've just leaned into my intuition. And by that, mean like even starting TCP. And I have to say this because I know there are people out there who are like, I really want to start my business.

I've been sitting on this idea for eight years or for three months or whatever that thing is, but I just can't bring myself to do it. What you just said was so wise is when we get that hit and then we sit in it too long, things get blurry. And then when things get blurry, we start to feel conflict. Whereas when I started my business, were no thoughts around it. I actually didn't talk to anyone. didn't consult anyone. I just reached out to you and said, hey, I think I want to do this. Can we?

Can we start talking about it? And then I just continued to work, like as I felt something, I just did it immediately. I didn't question it. I just let myself lean into it. It required a lot of experimentation, a lot of trust. Nothing made sense, right? And I think even having the thought of nothing's making sense right now creates that blur and that confusion, right? Like you're already out of the flow if you're thinking about how things aren't making sense. You're already out of the flow if you're like questioning what you're doing is right, right?

So it's like you can, there is this level of being so deeply connected into your intuition, which doesn't mean anything, by the way, it just means that you feel something and you follow it without question, right? And I love this and the other kind of, so anytime I've done this, like that's when I've been the most successful, that's when I've worked with quote unquote the most people or I've brought in quote unquote the most amount of money or I've felt the most deeply connected to my work. But then also just to echo that in a space less business wise, I know I mentioned this to you before as well, but,

Speaker 2 (49:48.054)

And surfing, I think this is something I've learned over and over and over again, is like when I paddle out into the water and like, let's say the waves are really big, I can sit there and think about what wave I want to catch. And I can sit there and think about even while I'm on a wave, like what it is that I want to be doing or how it is that I want to be surfing. But the times that I've had the most fun in the water and we could say, quote unquote, surf to the best. So like look to the prettiest, have the most style. I don't know whatever the terminology is around that.

caught the best waves were the times where I didn't think, but allowed my body to know, like, it's really funny because even when I'm sitting in the lineup and I'm watching the waves coming, there's a level of, I'm either in my head thinking about what's going on around me, or I'm fully integrated in my body. And when I am, and a wave comes and I know it's the right way for me, there's a deep knowing. And my body actually starts to move before even my brain has any.

indication of what it is that I'm doing. I like, I'll feel the pull of my body shifting before I even have the thought of I should catch this wave. And like, those are the times that I serve the best in the sessions that I feel the happiest and most fulfilled and have the most fun because there's a level of deep connection that exists that completely like bypasses the mind, right? Like completely bypasses the thought. So I think it's so important to connect in with that. I want to ask you one, like how we can start to develop and connect in with that. And then two, I want to

just come back after you answer this question and talk about how we can begin to bring the brain and the mind along the journey with us so that the rational mind, the reason, the logic can, I don't know, maybe integrate. But let's start with like, how do we tap into that intuition in the first place? How do we start to listen and feel and act?

Great question. So there's two things to this too. Also, I want to touch upon really quickly because yes, we are souls or spiritual beings in a human body, but also because of our human experiences, especially if we've had a lot of trauma, you might find your gut reaction to be one of trauma. So that's also important to address. Like for example, let's say that someone, I don't know, like

Speaker 1 (52:04.62)

if you were a kid or something and maybe your brother would like hit you on the arm, right? And so now every time someone does this, you like jerk back. The way to cultivate this and to know whether it's coming from your intuition or trauma is just to pause. Like when you get that, those first reactions don't, when you first start to cultivate this, do anything, right? And you can get a lot of help with this too, if it's very deep trauma and like, know, therapy or like with the spiritual coach or whichever way feels good to you.

but noticing what a traumatic response feels like, because it's going to feel very jerky versus an intuition is a movement. It's like a flow. And so one I would say is like the wave crashing on the wall and the other is just the wave. But noticing for your own body, what they feel like is going to be key. otherwise you can get very, it can feel confusing. It can feel really confusing. So that's where I would say to start.

And you can just intentionally sit with your body and ask, think of something that kind of, you know, does that for you and just notice how you, you, you kind of clench and then think of something where you felt like a, just a knowingness, like a, I should do this and how that feels. So that I would say that'd be the defining point. The number one way to do this for anyone that I would say to start is if you're already very like clear, very easy to tap into your body.

You can probably just practice, but if you're not, if this is something you struggle with, like definitely sitting in the nothingness, like just sitting with your body is going to be key and being okay, being uncomfortable. And I would even say yoga or some sort of practice, like that's a great way to do this. Cause you can just start tuning in with the teacher, get in the flow and notice how intuitively your body wants to move. Like I think that would be a really great way.

And also what I've learned recently is like, if we have really blocked chakras that can impact us a lot. So even just doing like a chakra cleanse or something, every day that can help to become more in tune with your intuition.

Speaker 2 (54:16.94)

this. thank you so much. Okay, keep going.

I was going to say, think actually you and I talked about this, but I'm just like blown away by it. The Eckhart Tolle, what he said about hitting the ball as a soccer player. Did we talk about that briefly? Yeah. maybe not. But well, for anyone listening, it's, blew my mind. So I hope it blows your guys mind. What he said was that the best soccer players in the world, they don't shoot right away.

I think we did, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:47.64)

they pause there's like, it's not like something you would really notice with the human eye, but there's this very slight, like one, two, three, and they kind of intentionally direct the energy of where the ball will go. And that little pause makes the difference between a knee jerk of just hitting the ball where then it has no control or intentionally knowing where the ball is going to go. And even our intuition, like just last night, actually I bought a course and I waited till the

the last minute, there was three minutes left before the thing expired. And I just sat and my intuition was like, yes. And I was like, one, two, three, yes. Okay, we're doing it. So I knew it wasn't just like, it's about to expire. You you need to get in on this. It was very much a grounded, like, this is still right.

Speaker 2 (55:35.926)

I love this. And we did talk about this, the pause, the pause before the actual movement of the ball. I, there's two things actually that come as I hear you say this now is the intentional energy direction and also the groundedness, right? Like the pause to allow ourselves to like root down and then using that route to direct the energy from the inside to the outside, right?

what it is that's coming forward for us internally and then where we're going to move that outside of us. That's so beautiful.

What also comes to me, because depending how our nervous systems are set up, if we're someone who like, let's say something happens, like, let's say they're like, you have two minutes to answer this question for a million dollars, right? How many of us go into flight or fight? Like noticing what your initial bodily reaction is. And if you're someone who freezes in those moments, you're going to want to incorporate movement. So I learned this from two different classes. I was taking a speech class and like how,

before giving a speech, how much movement's important in our face. So for anyone listening, if you feel like you freeze up and you don't know what to do, just move yourself. Like scream, literally like brrr, like whatever it is that your body needs in that moment, that will give you the answer.

this is such a good like nugget of wisdom. I did not know this. I don't know that I'm one that tends to freeze. Although what I'm learning about myself is that

Speaker 1 (57:14.681)

Bye.

sometimes scramble almost, right? Like there's like this internal scrambling that happens specifically when I'm excited, when I'm overly excited about something, like my insides almost like vibrate and then the scrambling happens. And then I almost like, I'm learning the pause. The pause is important for me. It's almost like, okay, pause and ground because if I allow myself to move from the scrambling, I start just like reaching for stuff. And eventually I find it, but it's like never.

starts with the right thing. The first thing I reach for and pull in is never the thing.

So like, I don't know if this resonates with you, but when I see the energy, like whenever there's like that excitement, it's like the energy is like all over, you know? So what happens if you just focus on one spot? Does the energy keep scrambling or does it come back? Yes. And that's even something in physics that I like, I don't, I'm not very scientific for anyone listening, but I've seen plenty of videos of how this works and what they've shown is like, where you put your attention is where you put your energy, right? So with atoms, they've done these tests.

where they'll send them out like into random, like into the test. And what happens is the second there's a human subject who places their attention on a part of it, they come back.

Speaker 2 (58:36.096)

Yes, I've heard this.

Yes, right like talking about what's going on with your energy if someone has that too where it's like, like it kind of goes all over. And then the key to that would be refocusing your intention or your energy.

my goodness, yes. I love this and just like even little side thing and then we can hop into the logic. But I was actually reading this, I think from Joe Dispenza, almost around the atoms, but it's like what comes to me is whenever we focus our energy, and I'm actually gonna pull back from that and not even say focus our energy. So repeating what you said, when we focus our attention on something.

that's where we drive our draw our energy, right? So where our attention goes, our energy flows. But what's really beautiful is actually when we focus our attention on something, not only are we directing our energy, but we're also, it's almost like integrating our energy with the energy of the thing that we're focused on, right? So I think about the atom, like the atom is, we could say completely separate from us, but when we focus on it, it appears, right? So there's actually like a change that happens around us based on the energy that we're throwing out into the universe. And I think this is,

There's a lot to this.

Speaker 1 (59:56.162)

Well, actually, I want to share something with you because this literally I had this thought I've never had this thought, but it came to me right before we talked. So I feel like it's supposed to come up. Okay, this is going to be a little bit out there. So I hope I can explain it well. But okay, they talk a lot about in spirituality, the third eye. And what I realized is like, one of my favorite things to say to people is like, I see it happening for you. Like, you know, I see it happening for you. Like, I, and if we can see it, right, that means the

the timeline, the probability is already opening, right? Because if we're talking about it, it must exist somewhere out there. But then today I had the thought, this isn't Rita who's seeing that. This isn't Marie who's seeing that. This is the eternal eye that sees this as a possibility. And that's what I'm getting chills again, because it's like, is what we're focusing the intention of the energy through the eternal eye of the universe.

Right? Like whenever you want something, desire something for yourself and it's for the highest good, see it coming for, or even others, like when someone's struggling and you want to send them love, see your love coming from the eternal eye of the universe. Like this infinite wisdom, because that again is how energy flows. So imagine if it's coming from the universal consciousness or, you know, I don't have more grounded words for it.

I wish I did, but from that energetic source.

Oh my goodness. Okay. So when you said the eternal eye, full body chills, by the way, this is something that similarly, I don't think I have the words or the logic or the reason or the like science to explain this, but I remember years ago before I well before, cause I say this quite a lot, but I think a year and a year and a half ago now, somebody would have said, Maria, you're going to be doing psychic readings and you're going to be coaching with people. would

Speaker 2 (01:01:46.796)

I would literally fall to the ground laughing. I'd be like, that's hilarious. I would never in a million years be doing that. And here I am. But years and years ago, I read this book called Travels by Michael Crichton. And simultaneously, I was reading this book called Consciousness. man, I forget who wrote it. I think their last name is Koch, K-O-C-H. think I could be lying about that. But it's a really, really great book. And the book Consciousness was all about

the number of connections. So it was analyzing consciousness and what actually consciousness even is. And it talks about the number of connections that exists in the human brain. And what it says is that the only thing in nature, and I kind of disagree with this, I think there are so many more things now, and so it's been years, but the most comparable thing that we could look at outside of ourselves in nature,

to the human brain, to the number of connections in the human brain is the Amazon rainforest. And by that, it's like the number of connections between the trees and the rainforest. And I remember reading this book when I was very deep into very logical philosophy. I was super like agnostic slash like even atheist, like very much. don't believe in anything. I believe in logic and reason. And I think I literally used to think math is the only objective truth that we have on this planet, right? And so I was like very much in the space, but I remember

reading that and thinking, my gosh, I wonder if the Amazon rainforest is conscious and like has consciousness, right? Like that's, I had this thought and then I was like, and at the same time I'm reading this book Travels by Michael Crichton. So Michael Crichton is the person who wrote Jurassic Park. Just for some backstory, he went to med school, actually became a doctor. He wrote Jurassic Park while he was in med school to pay for med school. It became like this big hit, became a movie. He kept writing sci-fi. This is like another example of just like following your heart, by the way.

And he ended up in this completely other world of living and existence, but throughout his life and between his writing and his movies and dedicating his time where he wanted to, he did a lot of traveling. And one of his favorite pastimes when he traveled was to see psychic readers. And he would like go to, I know, I no idea about this. And he did like, he went to all of these different readers and he would tell nothing about himself. He would...

Speaker 2 (01:04:04.532)

be really cryptic. Sometimes he would lie about who he was and like sometimes he would go daily to different people. And he just, I think, was curious at what would come up and he noted the different things that came through different people. And he said something about, I don't remember exactly maybe what he said, but I remember in my mind, I had this connection of, I wonder if all of these people are tapping into just this other

like dimension or reality. Like I couldn't quite explain it at that time, but I was like, I wonder if that's what's going on. And that kind of slowly started opening more, opening me more and more to like, okay, there actually can be a logical explanation behind the phenomenon of what it is that you're receiving or that I'm receiving or that anyone on this planet is capable of receiving, right? That the Amazon rainforest might be receiving. Like after reading that book and reading Consciousness at the same time, I was like, wow, there is actually.

Like there's something behind this that can explain this in a way that makes complete sense and that could dictate that this is total truth. I don't have what that is. I don't have the answer to that. But I think about that as I hear you even talk about the eternal eye, right? Like seeing something for someone else, I have chills again, seeing something for someone else or seeing something, receiving information that's coming from someone else, realizing that it's not you, it's not Rita, it's not Marie. And I think what I've learned in my own spiritual business and practices, I've started like reading tarot cards and

reading people's Akashic records and teaching people how to read the Akashic records and reading the Akashic records for businesses and plants and pets and like all sorts of things is this realization of it's not me. And you and I were just talking about this when we got on the call before we hit record this concept of I have never not completely blown away in awe completely just shocked at

the confirmation that I received from someone else when I get some sort of information and I give it to them and they're like, my God, like this is spot on or my God, you knew this thing. I'm still, even though I'm in this line of work, I'm still shocked every single time. I'm still grateful every single time. I'm humbled every single time. And I'm also reminded every single time that it is not me. Like it is not me, whatever it is that I'm seeing, however it is that I'm directing energy, even when I'm surfing and a wave is coming to me and my body knows it's my.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13.422)

Thank

Speaker 2 (01:06:18.286)

it's the wave that I should catch or that I'm gonna, I don't know, that I need to move with this wave. Even that I feel is not me, right? And like maybe I'm using my body to connect with whatever that is. And I can't explain it physically or logically or reasonably, but I just thought resonates so much and I have so many chills because it isn't, it isn't me, it isn't us, right? And yet it is like we're connecting to something.

Yes. And I had tears in my eyes when you were saying that, because it's like, yes, there's so much truth to this and what feels like truth, right? Like in our body, it resonates as truth, which is often those chills. What also is like, I think interesting too, which this is kind of coming through.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02.4)

There's, I think, why maybe so many struggle with like differentiating between what's us what's not right like the ego and the spiritual thing which has been thousands of years talked about probably since humankind existed.

that I recently learned is that we're evolving on three different levels, mind, body, spirit, constantly. So it would make sense that throughout this journey, we have to constantly remind the mind and the body of who it really is.

Because the spirit knows, right? The spirit's the one that we're saying doesn't associate with the action or what's coming through, right? But since our mind and body are evolving on the human consciousness level, it's like, that's why shadow work and all that stuff is so important because it's a constant evolution.

And I don't know that feels like it's important to say, put along with that of like, why we forget, like even at the beginning, going back to the success metrics, we forget because we're all three and they're all evolving at different levels.

Yeah, that hit so hard and so home, my whole body's vibrating again. It's so beautiful and it even answers like the second question that I was like, let's come back to this question. I think that's partially why I chose to do something like this is what happens when we just let ourselves be guided. We talk about all the things that we wanna talk about and it all comes toward exactly as it's supposed to. We forget because we're all three. So then how do we...

Speaker 2 (01:08:48.642)

remind the mind and the body what we really are. Like how do we bring the mind along in our journey? Spiritually, how do we keep that alignment?

I think this goes back to shadow work and radical honesty. So going back to even what's going on our planet right now, there is a lot of confusion and that's because we can't look to the normal metrics we would have what's really going on. So for example, I was on TikTok. Everyone is living in their own reality to some degree. Like literally it can be the same subject, like for anyone who watched, for example, the Johnny Depp trial or you know,

there can be 30 opinions on the exact same situation. And we often forget that we're all in our own world. We are all in our own world based on our own experiences, our own traumas. For example, someone who had a lot of trauma might associate better with one person over another. Not necessarily always objective. It's just based on what's our current reality that we're experiencing. And then when you kind of see

all these things going on in the world that aren't being healed. They just keep resurfacing again and again, like gun law or gun control. That's an example where on both sides, there's very differing beliefs, but what's happening is like, nothing is being healed in one direction or not. And then another problem is coming up. another situation comes up. It's like one thing comes up and then another comes up and nothing's being healed. And

The problem with this is that our soul kind of remains always knowing, but our human evolution is changing rapidly. So for example, of course we're going to be on a human level upset when you see your friends who are impacted by something or you see people impacted by something that's just human nature, but noting that the rapid nature that this is happening at at the moment is the level you have to keep up with your shadow work.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58.964)

and the level that you have to keep addressing what's going on in the world. And sure, you could de-plug from it. You can go live on a farm and meditate every day and be happy. And for some of us, we'll be called to do that. But for others, if we're going to live in this world and we're going to be an active part of it, we have to be active in the amount of work we're doing to address the amount of change and destruction that's actively going on.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31.288)

So what my measure is, as long as we're in a human body, meaning someone has to eat, sleep, use the bathroom, we always will have to do this.

This is so, oh my gosh, this is so wise. It's almost like this is, so as you're talking, I was just kind of writing this little diagram of just like even thinking about, think gun control is such a great example because there's like, there's like at the center, the root, have like guns or gun control, right? And then outside of that, we have almost like two sides. We have two opinions of, well, two big opinions and then lots of opinions around those big opinions about what's right or what's wrong or what is.

And then like what I even wrote down is like, if we replace like gun control or guns with like healing, right? Like the center is healing. That's like the thing that it's like going back to the beginning even of like, that is what is right? Like the core of what is that's the existence. And then it's almost like there's a bubble and around that there's everything else. And it's like, everything else is almost a distraction from like, what is at the center and what is at the core of what really matters.

So many things came to my mind as you were saying that like one of them specifically with gun control is like Brene Brown. And she talks about how, and I talk about this a lot too. I've actually written a few articles on this, like the logical fallacy of it's us versus them, like me versus we, right? Like it's either A or it's B, it's black and white. There's no in between, but like what actually is, is not an opinion. It just is, right? Like truth, there's no opinion about truth. Like truth just is, it just exists. Like what is real is just there. And so.

What also comes to me is like in tarot, there's a card called justice and the justice card traditionally read says that like justice will be served, right? Like maybe sometimes someone will read it like someone is wrong to you or something like that. But actually the way that I like to read this and I have to credit Lindsay Mack for this is that in order for us to live and act in justice or in peace, in order for us to transform anything,

Speaker 2 (01:13:35.342)

in truth. And by that, mean, like, transform, like the truth of what is into whatever we want it to be, right? We have to sit in what actually is first, like the whole medicine around the Justice Card is like, yes, things feel unfair. Yes, like something bad is happening, and it's happening. So how can you like, be in the thing that's happening fully before taking any action? It's almost like that pause before the kick, right?

But it's like, how can you fully immerse yourself in what is actually true before acting or by acting, mean, into an activist type role, right? It says, yes, you've been wrong, but how can you sit with this and be here so that you actually know what's real? And I say this because a lot of times in work, in life, in business, we get so close to the truth. We get so close to the root of the matter. And then we...

we like flit away and we go take action based on what it is that we found, but we don't see the whole thing. And I think about this when it comes to like gun control or like abortion or any of the big topics that we talk about, right, or that we've been talking about for years and years and years, and we'll maybe continue to talk about for years and years and years in this country is we oftentimes come so close to the root and then we develop an opinion and then we move based on the opinion, but we're not actually moving based on the root, if that makes sense.

You know, and so it's like the reason a lot of these things are existing in our world right now and unhealed is because we're not actually allowing ourselves to sit with them and be with them and heal them. And I think if we even want to like take this back to the business perspective of having a spiritual business, something that I often leave my clients back to all the time is like, what is the actual work that you're here to do and how can you be in that? And like, this helps so much with the overwhelm because again, sometimes we get so close to the root of what it is that we're supposed to do.

but we don't allow ourselves to fully sink into it, that we start taking all of this action that is actually irrelevant. And so we do all of this work that's not actually healing the main thing or not actually addressing the main thing or not getting to the core or the root of what actually matters because we don't allow ourselves to sit in that seemingly nothingness. We don't let ourselves sit in the discomfort. We don't let ourselves fully release all of the opinions and the everything else that surrounds it because we're so inclined to just like,

Speaker 2 (01:16:00.152)

do and know and have certainty, right? I don't know, that's just like came forward in my mind.

resonates. I think what also is like true about that is that with what you said, like we're not sitting in the root of it until you know that everyone has a solution for everything. If you ask anyone, like, well, this is what we need to do. That's the solution. No one actively speaks on what's the problem to begin with. And until we actually all have a conscious conversation of that and like really meet there. So for example, let's say someone is running their business and they,

keep having one successful launch and then the next launch flops, like it's a pattern. The solution, right, would be, well, you need to change coaches or you need to change to Kajabi or you need to do this, or you need to invest more here or you need to take a vacation. But what is the problem that's leading to this? Right. And so if we address that, maybe it would be, well, my worth believes that I can't have this. Okay. So if we address the worth, do you have to change anything else? And then will it just, will it,

Will that actually just be the change itself? So of course there's a value to solutions, but not until we know what's the underlying thing or cause. And I think that what happens, which I obviously, I don't know if anyone has the solution for everything going on in our world, or we would be in a much different place, but I think even just having conscious conversations is a flow of like, well, hey, if we just really talk about this for a second and sit in the discomfort.

What does this actually mean?

Speaker 2 (01:17:44.722)

this is so beautiful. And it's so underrated and requires such a deep level of trust because even coming back to this concept of nothingness, I think in our society and just as human beings, we value productivity. We value, again, like measurements of success, like money, number of followers, number of people we work with, clients, years that we've been in service, like whatever the thing might be.

we value the productivity aspect of it. And I actually had a boss at Microsoft that said once, busyness and productivity are two different things. And I think we shift away from, even though we value productivity so much, sometimes we actually aren't productive in our work because we're focused on solution, solution, solution, solution, instead of product where actually the most productive thing we can do is like focusing on the root, right? And I think we lose this.

because we have this false sense of control of if I do A, B is gonna happen. We lose this trust in ourselves, trust in what's around us because we wanna control the solution or control the outcome in actually just believing that maybe if we have a conversation about what's real, we don't have to even do anything that everything's gonna change, right? And it's this fear of if I do nothing, nothing's gonna happen. But actually if we just subtly,

my gosh, in yoga, this is one of my favorite things. Like when you're standing, like you can adjust your toes and the entire body will shift. And it's this beautiful thing of if we can just adjust the way we look at something, maybe we don't have to do anything, but the entire world will shift, right? If we can all, I have chills too. If we can all be in that frequency. And I think about just like a hard material example for everyone. I did a tapping session with Jess Blanche from Jess Blanche Coaching. She's also my media manager.

I don't know, a month or so ago, six weeks ago. And what was fascinating is it wasn't like the tapping that necessarily shifted consciousness for me. It was literally just me telling her what was true. And by that, I mean what I was afraid of and her saying it back to me so that I could repeat it back to her while I was touching my body in different areas, because literally all that I needed to do to shift everything in my reality was to simply acknowledge what was true for me.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06.604)

And I was like, even though I knew the fear that was existing in my life and my body at the time, I couldn't actually say them. And even just saying them once to someone, because oftentimes when, even when I come to you, in our sessions, I'll be like, this is what's going on in my life right now. And this is what I'm afraid of. That does a lot, but it's almost like the allowing yourself, because when I do that, it's like I'm coming because I'm like, what's the solution? Let's talk about the solution. But what we actually, and you always got to what we

me back to this.

what actually makes the biggest ripple effect and change and transformation for me is literally allowing myself to just sit in, acknowledge and accept the problem that's there. And I don't even want to say problem, the way that I feel, right? It's like acknowledging, literally just acknowledging the truth. Yeah, it has so much power.

Yes. And like what also comes to me too, and thank you for sharing that. That's so powerful too, about just like acknowledging and having a repeated back to you what you were afraid of. But I think this is what's going on in a collective level. Going back to even, we could use abortion as an example. So a few months ago, I had a hard conversation. And when I had to reflect upon it, what I got told from one of my mentors was, cause it didn't go well. And she said, you got too emotional.

And I didn't like this answer. I knew it was true, but I didn't like this answer. What do you mean? How am I supposed to not be emotional in those moments? And she's like, you can express truth and not be emotional. And that was what you had to learn from that situation. So I was like, okay. So if we look at everyone right now, if we think of abortion on every side, everyone's emotional. Everyone. I mean, I'm sure there's some people who are somewhat indifferent, but probably very few people, cause it directly impacts every woman.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55.648)

and maybe their wives or their sisters or their daughters. So let's say someone's for it, someone's against it. At their core, they might be saying all these different reasons. Why are they for or against it? It all comes down to identity. So who do we believe we are, right? So, and this is the same thing with gun control. If we're saying we're for one statute for another, every single person at their core, very likely,

is for it for protection of children or protection of people, right? Protection of rights. The word protection probably comes up. Freedom. Everyone probably to some degree wants freedom, but they want the freedom to feel safe or the freedom to be able to hold a gun. It's very similar words. So our values are actually very similar, just being expressed in different ways, because humans have very similar values. So with abortion, you know, like

if someone let's say is religious. So they're like, well, I'm not for abortion because if I'm for abortion, then that means I'm not a good person. And then that means I won't go to heaven. So if I'm not a good person, I need to express that word. That's the belief going on with them with their identity. Then someone who's for it might say, well, I'm not a good person if I don't advocate for the rights of my body and someone else's. So it comes down to their belief system of literally what's right and wrong.

And again, it's a belief system. I don't know if anyone can say what's true or what's not true. And I mean, that can be broken down and like, yes, on a logical level, of course we can follow that differently, but on an energetic level, that's what's playing out. And that's kind of what I meant about everyone's in their own reality of we're all trying to defend our own identity.

No

Speaker 1 (01:23:41.752)

So being able to have these conversations, like one thing I always say is like always like have people around you who do not agree with you. This is the most empowering thing and you can have because it constantly makes you reevaluate who you think you are. If you're surrounded by people who always agree with you, that's a problem, big problem. Because you're getting confirmation bias, they're reaffirming who you are. And that's even why that teacher scared me so much. Cause every time I'd be like, I'm doing great. And she'd be like, in the heart.

You know, and I'm like, I'm gonna flop over and die. But that's good. That's good because it really holds you accountable to who you believe you are.

I love this. my gosh, I love this so much. this just this question of who do we believe we are even like, who do you think you are? And then just this idea that we're all actively trying to defend our own identity is like this idea. I want to say this truth because we all are like constantly and it comes back to even what you said in the beginning and even coming back to our businesses and our lives and how we choose to live of always constantly connecting with like, who am I?

consciously, right? Because we source our identities outside of us. So like coming back to that internal versus external validation and internal versus external sourcing, we source who we think we are based on the people around us, based on the stories around us, based on the media around us, based on, and this is something I noticed actually even in this last week in Mexico, we source who we are and like what our value is based on those around us.

constantly in comparison as well of like that person does this and I do this. like maybe I'm lower on the wrong or maybe I'm this or like me or this is why I'm actually higher on the wrong or like when I hear people say things like, this person does blah, blah, blah. I think my, think I do it better, right? Like even doing things like that, right? Like it's, comes right back down to what you just said of we're trying to figure out who we are and we're using the people around us to determine that or the things around us to determine that or using how we feel about things around us to determine that. like,

Speaker 2 (01:25:49.41)

what we really could be and are invited to do is looking deeply inside of us to say, who am I? Who do I believe that I am? And then realizing that no matter who or what is around us, the core of what we really are never actually changes, right? And it's like always being reminded of that. Like no matter what we believe, we are not what we believe. No matter what we think, we are not what we think. No matter what we.

feel we are not even what we feel, right? Like there's something else inside of us. And the more we can stay connected to that source inside of us, the less chaotic things will be around us. And almost the more we can act from a place of not necessarily emotions, but of truth, right? Like the truth of who we actually are, which is not separate than anyone else actually around us. So I think this is like, my gosh, it's so beautiful. And then even like coming back to like the businesses that we run, especially

you know, spiritual business and what success looks like in a spiritual business coming back to again who we are and how do we express that through our work. Yeah.

I think there's like so much here. There's like lifetimes of wisdom and lessons that, you know, like I'll probably spend forever thinking about this whole lifetime thinking about. I think what I really come back to again and again is that you're your own best expert. You're the only one who knows truly what you mean and what you're here to bring to earth. Like, and that's coming from some two people, right? Who read the Akashic records.

which is supposed to be the energy of everything. And it is, yet also knowing that you're the only reason the Akashic Records will even come into your life is to empower you to become your own advocate and like, you know, person for this stuff. It's not that ever.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46.314)

It's so important to remember that if you're, know, for example, if I was born in Ethiopia or Italy, and even if my name was Rita, my personality would be completely different. My, beliefs about this world would be completely different. I'm this Rita personality wise, because I grew up in Tampa, Florida, I have my parents. So I'm not really Rita. Like this isn't a, this is an identity that was created. I could go.

walk onto a plane, go to Australia, say my name is Lily and that I, you know, am a finance manager in New York city and no one would know. And that's the thing about this. It's all created. It's all created because that's what we, for whatever reason we've all bought into to how our world works. And there's a power though, when you're no longer attached to that. So with being of service, which is not anything related to identity or

Just it's more of like, I guess I should do that. Or yeah, that kind of sounds cool. It's not like I'm destined for this or it's just more of this like, yeah, I choose to do that because I'm just a human being and that's the life I want to live. You kind of take a radical ownership of your life and you're not as swayed by what you think you need to be or what you believe yourself needing to be anymore.

Mm. Just so much yes. So much yes to that. So much yes to that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20.504)

What a beautiful, almost like beautiful wrap or summary of just all of it.

feel like we went to different, I feel like we just covered lifetimes. Like I feel like I on a journey that was so cool and amazing. I hope anyone who's listening feels that way too, because I don't remember anything we talked about, which always tells me that it was like meant to be channeled through. And just for anyone listening, Marie and I even did like a little intention setting before this and we asked for

any fear that we had about what to talk about or what we expected our human being self to talk about or what our ego wanted us to talk about. We tried to push that to the side just to let what was meant to be talked about come through. So hopefully we did that.

Yeah. Oh, I feel like mission accomplished. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Rita.

I'm like, I'm like blowing like I have, I'm always rejuvenated after these conversations. Like this is like, this is it. This is like, for sure. This is a measurement of success. Like when I have a conversation with like someone like you, like this, like I can't imagine that this is like, if I died today, this is happiness.

Speaker 2 (01:30:34.894)

I couldn't agree more. I could not agree more. And just, I have to say thank you so much for your openness, for your vulnerability, for just sharing, for talking, for flowing, for holding space together with me, for holding intention together with me and everyone who might be listening. I so, it's just such an honor to know you and work with you and be able to have deep conversation together. And I'm just so grateful for you.

Right back to you. I'm really grateful. Today was magical and it's because you're who you are or I'm who I am, but we're both who we aren't who we think we are. A moment of magic. you. And to anyone listening, your energy created it too. So it's fun to tap into that and also be like human and know that there's very human things we still have to do. Whether you're doing a spiritual business or not, you hold both.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32.402)

I love that. Okay, one last thing before we totally end. What are you working on right now in your spiritual business? And how can people find you?

Hey, so right now I have one to one offerings for spiritual coaching. I do offer Akashic Record readings for anyone who's interested in that. It's not as much I'm telling you what's in your records, but more so exploring it. So if you're interested in learning more about your spiritual journey, that's a great way. And also launching another how to read your own Akashic Records class. So that's something that calls to you. That's something that'll be launching in July.

Thank you so much. And to anyone listening, I have been working with Rita for over a year now, on a one-on-one level, and also I've had readings together with her and I highly, highly, highly recommend any connection that you can make with her because it will truly change your life and shake up all the things that you think you know about who you are and what it is that you're meant to be doing and how it is that you can move through the world and...

Yeah, how you can connect back really in with yourself and your deepest level of consciousness and intuition and being.

Thank you. I love you. so welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44.064)

I love you so much.

Episode 21. To Stay or Go? The Inner Work That Makes the Choice Clear

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Episode Description:

Torn between staying or leaving a relationship—or even a job, city, or lifestyle? In this episode, Marie reframes the question: before you jump, do the inner work that makes the decision clear. She shares why leaving too soon can cause us to repeat the same patterns, how to grow from within until the old shell no longer fits, and practical prompts to uncover what you actually desire beneath the surface of “I want a partner who…”

Learn how to:

• Distinguish surface growth from deep transformation

• Practice unconditional giving (to yourself and your partner)

• Ask for support in ways that expand you both

• Recognize when the answer is obvious—without guilt or confusion

If you’ve ever felt stuck on the “should I stay or should I go” teeter-totter, this episode will help you move toward clarity, confidence, and authentic self-led growth.

Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.596)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Gruver from The Corporate Psychic. This episode is about when to stay and when to go. For the first time I think ever, I dive into the teeter totter or conflict of staying or leaving in romantic relationships. If this episode resonates, I invite you to like it, to share it, and to follow along for more episodes to come.

Marie Groover (00:36.473)

be in the work now so that you can be ready for the goodness later. If I had to tagline this episode and some of the wisdom that has recently been pouring out of me, this is what I would say. So working in this industry, by this industry, mean personal development, spiritual development, career development, leadership development, there is a common storyline, a common theme of

I burned it all to the ground and I started over. I rose from the ashes. In this, people share about their massive shuttings into massive rebirth and growth. Things like leaving their jobs, marriages, relationships, life situations, homes, material possessions, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and how that set the stage for a new beginning. And oftentimes this is very true. Whenever we...

see massive growth catalyzed, it feels like this big thing happens, a rupture or quantum leap, but often it's like the little things that lead up to the big things. But all we see is the big stuff, right? Like all we see is the divorce or the ending of the relationship or the leaving of the job or the migration away from the nine to five. So it makes sense that you all, that people would ask this question of when is the right time to let go of X? Because we all want that big

growth, right? We want the catalyzed transformation. And so we ask, when is the right time to let go of X? What even is X? And in this scenario, I mean, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your partner, your familial ties, your career, your lifestyle, your diet, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I love this question. It's an excellent question that I really like to answer because I don't believe that stepping out is the only or even the best way

up or onward or forward. It is true that we evolve beyond many of the relationships, scenarios, lifestyles, people, places, work, etc. in our lives. And that there does often come a time to bow to honor to whatever shell we are currently in, and to step forward into something bigger, something more expansive, something more authentic to who we are and who we are becoming.

Marie Groover (03:04.418)

And if we consciously step out of something and consciously step into something new, even before we are ready or especially before we are ready, we actually risk repeating the same cycle of behavior, actually slowing our growth and expansion in some pretty deep ways. Now this seems contradictory or maybe against the grain, but an example would be, have you met the person who

does more personal development than anyone else you know, but like still isn't fully satisfied with their life or their self or the way in which they or others operate in the world. Are you that person? Yeah, so there is surface level personal development, which can be conscious and can only go so deep while it also goes vastly outward.

So it's the personal development work that we see on the outside at the surface level and sometimes goes a little bit deep, but maybe not all the way, right? And then there is the development that comes from inside of you that starts from inside of you. And it can be catalyzed externally by coaching or courses or group programs, but actually only requires you does not require anything or anyone outside of yourself. Now, if you're listening,

And if you have listened to any of my other episodes, you know already that I believe that purpose, fulfillment, joy, worth, success, all come from within. That is we start inward and we work our way outward. And this is where and how we connect with ourselves, with true happiness, with fulfillment, with deep self worth, with confidence, in joy.

I also believe that this is true and extends into our evolutionary process. And in that, to get the most out of our own evolution, expansion, growth as beings, our development, we start where we are, and then we work our way out. So when someone comes to me and says, I can't be authentic at work or in my relationship, I am restricted. I need to quit.

Marie Groover (05:26.869)

I need to break up with this person. I need to or I should walk away, et cetera, et It really peaks my curiosity. And again, sometimes we do need to walk away to grow. And, and, and much of the time I think to truly evolve at a deep level, we start where we are. Yes, in the job that restricts us.

in the relationship where we feel that we cannot express, in the situation that does not seem to be serving us or growing us or lifting us, because it is no one else's job to lift you up. And if you can lift yourself where you are, you are going to learn all the lessons that you need to, to fully complete the cycle that you are in.

And if you master the situation while you are in the situation, you'll never have to come back to it again. So then you'll move from small shell to one massive new shell that you can fully fill and receive from. Whereas if you just pop out of job into the next job, into the next thing, into the next school or class or relationship, into the next relationship or thing to thing to thing to whatever the thing is, you will also grow.

and expand, but it will be incremental each time. And it may or may not be at that deep level, but might look like, again, the person who does all the personal development in the world, but is still not fully satisfied. And you can do this in the quantum leap, it will come because you're still going to be learning and growing and expanding, but it might take years to manifest.

Now for some people this is the process and it is a beautiful cycle of experiences on so many levels I resonate with it. But if you start where you currently reside, you won't evolutionarily move in a way that causes any sort of conflict in your heart. What I mean is you won't be conflicted about whether or not to leave your partner, your career, your home, your state, your country, whatever. You'll move into the new shell.

Marie Groover (07:45.377)

your new way of being because you have literally expanded so far beyond the small shell that it just makes sense. It's no longer a question. The teeter totter is gone, right? It doesn't exist. So there are two things to talk about with this. The first is the general how, how do we grow and evolve in a situation or environment that feels like it's keeping us at a low frequency or pressing us down? And the second,

is where we get stuck when we go this route. Remember we work from within. When we do this, when we work from within, the outcomes naturally follow. When our internal environment has evolved, the external environment will reflect that. So in these two topics, I want to speak specifically to one particular type of scenario that I see a lot, romantic relationships. Because this is a question I get

a of questions on and until now I haven't really voiced wisdom, which is the same wisdom that I would use for non-romantic scenarios such as career by the way, that addresses this area. So here's a common scenario. I'm in the middle of a spiritual awakening and my partner doesn't get it. I don't think that they are going to get it. I don't know if this relationship is right for me or not anymore. I feel like I have outgrown this partnership or

Same scenario, but slightly different words. I wish my partner could see and understand what I'm going through and experiencing. I wish my partner were interested in the same things as me. It would be so amazing to have a partner who is also awakening or on the same path. I love this person deeply. I don't know what to do. I'm not sure that I can grow in this relationship the way that it is. I don't know that I can grow with this person anymore. Well.

That's a scenario by the way. That's not, I'm not talking about myself. Although I have been in this scenario before and you can just leave. You can and you'll figure it out. I have no doubt. And if you're listening right now, you already know if this is the right thing for you or not. If you're even in the situation, I'm not going to advise either way, but the opportunity if you stay is this, your relationship,

Marie Groover (10:09.537)

and the outcome of your relationship is external to your being. And it's also at the surface of what's really going on, AKA it's just the tip of the iceberg. If you focus on what you want on an external surface level and then try to strategize around it, you will likely fall short in the actual receival of what it is that you want. You'll miss the buck.

So when you are in this situation, ask yourself, what is it that you really want? Try to go beyond the external tangible material desires, AKA, I wanna partner that dot dot dot. That's not deep enough. That's too surface level, too external, too tangible. What's beneath that desire? Do you want to be seen and heard? Do you wanna be witnessed in your transformation? Do you wanna be understood? Do you want support?

What does support look like? Do you want validation? What does validation look like? What is it that you're desiring on the deepest level within your relationship? And even deeper than this, what is it that you are desiring on the deepest level within yourself? Very likely, whatever it is that you most deeply desire is not going to be in a direct conflict with being in partnership.

but occasionally it will be. I'm not gonna dive into this today or this particular scenario, but if it piques your interest, I will speak to this in another episode. Essentially, the human experience and relationships are not linear. And sometimes the thing that we want the most is to be alone or to grow in a way that can only be realized in solitude for periods of time in our lives. Usually it's not forever, but sometimes it is lifetimes.

Sometimes it's not, but even this, it's not something that necessarily needs to impede a partnership or rupture a partnership. And it's absolutely something that can be worked through if both parties are transparent and vulnerable and trusting and share openly, right? And so choose to do so. So when you know what you want and when you are clearer on what you want in your relationship, so let's say you desire to be fully seen and held

Marie Groover (12:35.361)

in your being or in your transformation, ask yourself, are you willing to give that unconditionally? AKA, without knowing that you will receive it back, are you willing to give that unconditionally both to yourself and to your partner? So if you desire to be fully seen, can you see yourself? If you desire to be fully seen, can you see fully?

your partner, the person that's in front of you, and then ask yourself, what do you need? What support do you need? What do you need to do in order to receive what you want? If you want to be seen, are you willing to step into yourself fully in order to be witnessed as you are? Are you willing to ask for what it is that you truly desire? Are you willing to ask for support?

in stepping forward into yourself or into whatever it is that you truly desire. Are you willing to give yourself grace and compassion when you stumble in your new way of being? Are you willing to give your partner grace and compassion for navigating your connection with each other in your new way of being? Are you even willing to be seen? Are you willing to see your partner or anyone outside of you? Start there. When you can step into yourself,

when you can embody your spiritual awakening and transformation, you will evolve regardless of who is in relationship to you and regardless of how they respond to you. That is your power. And those around you will either adapt and evolve and meet you and know not be and do and believe exactly what you believe, but they will hold the space that you are in in

presence and respect they might have to learn to do this, but they will or They will leave Sometimes in relationship. They will try to make you small Unconsciously or consciously because change and growth is scary AF So even in that scenario, how can you hold compassion for that and still give them what it is that you want to receive? How can you see them where they are?

Marie Groover (14:59.095)

How can you give them grace and give yourself grace and ask yourself, what is the most loving thing that I can do for myself right now? And sometimes that does mean to exit. But when you are in that place of deep love and connection with yourself and this deep love will echo out for your partner and those around you as well, you will know without a doubt whether or not you want to be in that relationship.

whether or not that relationship is or will serve you at your highest. But until you practice allowing yourself to be seen, until you practice knowing what you actually want and need and desire and allowing yourself to have it, even asking for it, even with the most spiritually awakened partner or human, even with the most...

relatable, similar person as you, you won't receive it. And if you can practice loving yourself and growing with yourself in your current state, if and when you are ready to shut it, you will. And when you're ready to receive the love that you so deeply desire from a partner that may or may not be your current partner, that completes the statement, I wanna partner that dot dot dot.

you'll actually know how to receive it and you won't miss it. Plus, the fruits of your inner work will reflect outwardly and it will echo out so far beyond your relationship, by the way. Now, sometimes we make this decision to stay because we do see this opportunity to grow within the scenario that we're in, but then we don't take the radical responsibility and accountability that's required for our own growth and expansion within the scenario.

This is where we get stuck. We get even more stuck if we see the opportunity to grow in a current relationship, not because we see the potential for ourselves to grow and evolve into love and evolve into higher self, but because we see the potential for our partner to. This will not expand us or our relationship because again, when we have that focus, that focus is external and the outcome is reliant on something outside of us.

Marie Groover (17:25.471)

So gently I remind you that transformative change, evolution, expansion, it starts from within. The things that you want to see outside of yourself must first be present inside of you. It already is actually. And you must become aware of it and water those inner seeds because when the internal is ready, the external will follow in relationship.

but also in career, in life, in work, in material, and intangible as well.

Marie Groover (18:02.185)

this episode resonated with you, please like, follow, share, comment. And I invite you to join the TCB community on Mighty Networks. You can find it at community.thecorppsychic.com. And I am so stoked to announce that there's both a monthly and a yearly subscription offering at like a super no brainer economical investment of $8 a month or $88 a year. You not only will be receiving behind the scenes discussion for this podcast, The Spiritual Nine to Five.

where your voice will also be a contributing factor to our topics. But the community is where I host all of my monthly master classes, free if you're in it, where I offer all discounts and incentives for my work itself, and where my calendar opens up first. Plus, when you join, you join a badass community who just might be your people. Folks that are expanding in spiritual, career, business, and beyond, and connecting through the wisdom of our shared experience. I would love to see you there.

and thank you for listening.

Episode 20. From Corporate to Coaching: Kelly (Anderson) Jackson on Purpose, Shedding, and the Leap Beyond 9-to-5

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Speaker 2 (00:00.078)

Okay. We are live. So I just want to say thank you so much, Kelly, for being here. I'm so excited for this conversation. I've been so pumped since we first talked. Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me, Marie. It has been such a pleasure getting to know you these last couple of weeks and like have been so excited about this conversation for today. Thank you for having me.

Of course, of course, thank you. Okay, so you know this about me. I like to spotlight the things that, I don't know, maybe we kind of tend to gloss over the things that maybe are a little bit trending, but we have slightly less awareness around, specifically around leaving the nine to five, right? Like this is one of those huge things where I think in our industry, there's a big message of like, just quit your job.

which is totally great and fine, but I really, really loved hearing your story originally because in your case you did quit, but it wasn't like I just quit, right? So can we start there? Can we start with you? Can we start with your story? Can we start with, yeah, your transition out of the nine to five into your business and just how everything transpired.

Yes, yes, I would love to start there. And I think it's important just to kind of like build the context of how I got to that decision, because it really was a multi layered decision. There was a lot of factors involved beyond just my career not speaking to me, there was a lot going on behind the scenes for me personally and spiritually that led to that decision. So, rewinding flashing back my first job out of college, like over 15 years ago was as a recruiter. And

Speaker 1 (01:41.644)

that is really a career that most recruiters will tell you they kind of fall into. And that is exactly how it happened for me is I fell into it and I liked it, met some really great people, built a great skillset, grew through that career over time, made the transition from the agency side into an internal corporate position, worked for a couple of big name consulting firms here in the US and really felt like

Okay, this is it. This is what I'm supposed to be doing, right? Like building this super successful career and, you know, climbing ladder with promotions and salary increases and like, I've got it all, right? But it was just like this little teeny tiny whisper that had always been there. And I, for the longest time, chose to ignore it. And that whisper was, this isn't quite aligned. Like you're meant for something else.

Yes

Speaker 1 (02:41.742)

But I hadn't necessarily developed the skills with myself yet to really like know what to do with that whisper, like how to explore it. I didn't really have a relationship with my intuition for the longest time. And so I just kept putting that whisper to the side, like, meh, like whatever, like this is fine, right? Like I'm in this great career.

And it wasn't until probably about like three or four years ago, 2018 actually, and I'm remembering this because I was just reading through some old journals this week, interestingly enough. And 2018 was really a time where that whisper became louder. And it was showing up in ways where I found myself like coming home from work and numbing out.

with TV and with alcohol and with friends and working out and all the things that helped me disconnect from my career. I was very stressed out, but just kept grinding and kept hustling. And then things started really shifting for me personally in 2019. I went through a really difficult separation with my then husband, which led to a divorce.

I decided to make a job change at the time and join a local consulting firm thinking like, this will fix it. I'll be happier at this company. And so there was just a lot of turmoil going on for me internally at that time. And I kept kind of putting band-aids on it, right? Like thinking that that was gonna fix it. And, you know, ultimately once the pandemic hit and, you know, all of us were stuck in our home.

That was a very isolating time for me, having just gone through the divorce, learning to kind of stand on my own and going through that healing process personally. I realized like, gosh, like I'm not living my most purposeful, fulfilling life right now. And the divorce was one way of shedding that piece of the issue that was getting in the way of me stepping into that life. And then the career was kind of the next thing that came up for review.

Speaker 1 (04:53.582)

So like the universe kept showing me all these big areas of life that were coming up for review in my interpretation. And so went through a pretty deep healing process of, you know, working with spiritual mentors and a coach and, know, early 2021. I remember that first Monday back after the holidays in January, it was like, I opened my laptop and I just, said to myself, this is the year I leap. And I didn't know, I didn't know what, and I didn't know the how.

But I had at least gotten myself to a point in my own awakening and healing process that it was like, I'm building the confidence to know that I will figure it out. And that felt really good because I didn't know how to do that before. And so I avoided it. And so that really set everything in motion. And so I gave myself five or six months to really like be strategic about it, picking the right time to leave.

kind of coming up with somewhat of a rough plan of what I was gonna do next, then we'll get into that. And making sure like from a financial perspective that I was feeling good about that decision. So a lot of it was like a big leap of faith in the universe and sort of like where I knew my soul was meant to go. And some of it was also the strategy piece too. And so I ended up leaving in May, 2021. So it's been almost a year now and like,

I know many say this, but this is so true for me too. Like I have not looked back. It's been such a beautiful shift for me in my life. And I've grown so much just even in the last year since having left.

my gosh. I love this so much. you said so many things that I want to touch on. I like, I was trying to like grab paper and not make any noise. Yeah. So I just love kind of this knowing that you initially started developing that things were not fully in alignment. How has that shifted for you? And like, what would you even say that means? Right? I'm thinking about someone who might be listening to this podcast and

Speaker 2 (06:54.796)

like super resonate with you. And I could even say there are so many parts of your story that I resonate with. Yeah. How do you, how do you sense that? How do you start to sense like this isn't an alignment and then what feels like it is an alignment and how have, how have you kind of, you know, made the movement toward that?

Yeah, that was tough to identify at the time. Like when I was in the thick of it, it was really hard to put my finger on. what is it that feels off about this? I couldn't quite identify it, but now that I've had some distance and separation from it, it's so easy to see now. And, you know, I think a lot of it was the little things. Like when I would wake up in the morning, I was in fight or flight mode immediately of like, what do have to get done today? And am I checking this thing off the list? And did I get that deliverable into

you know, my client and my hiring manager, like it was always this very stressed out response or reaction mode that I was in. And I thought that was normal at the time. Like I thought that that's how you're supposed to feel in your job, right? Cause we always are hustling around and meeting to meeting and getting things in at deadlines. And I thought that that was just how it was supposed to feel.

But like after a while, I just started seeing that manifest and like such, I don't know, like deep pain from like an emotional perspective. I just felt like worn down. I felt drained. I felt unfulfilled. I felt lost. you know, going to bed at night, I was very drained. I didn't feel like, wow, like I can really like put my name on this day and feel good about what I did. And so I had to really look at that closely and be like, is this?

Is this how I want to feel regardless of how I think this is how it should be? Is this how I desire to feel every day? And like that answer was absolutely not. And so I had to get really clear with myself, well, how do I want to feel? And then the inspired action like came from there of just like, are the things that I see myself doing that are much more fulfilling that can still like serve others and have an impact.

Speaker 1 (09:04.238)

which is what led me into the coaching world really. But you can, know, for anyone out there that's listening, that's feeling that disconnect from nine to five, like it's really about getting honest with how do you feel in your body every day? How do you feel in your heart every day? Do you feel like you're living your core values every day with what you're doing? And maybe the answer is yes, but maybe it's not.

This is so good. And I love, I love so much this wisdom of, because it is normal. It is very normalized to wake up and feel like you're in fight or flight mode. can, I almost guarantee the majority of people that I work with even now probably wake up and immediately check their email or think about checking their email, right? Or they're like, Oh my God, I didn't do that thing. And I can, I can resonate with this because there are oftentimes too, where if I don't wake up,

and allow myself the space and capacity to enjoy my morning, I will immediately go into that as well, right? And it's like the moment I log in, I'm like, shit, like there are a thousand things on my list and how am gonna do all of this? And the overwhelm gets so, it's so real and the drainage is so real as well. And so I love this wisdom of asking yourself, is this how I want to feel? Forget about what's normal, about what everyone else feels, but is this what I want?

And what do I want to feel? Would you say, okay, I like, have to go into this now because I think there's such a, there's such a fine line between.

like burnout, full level burnout, and not even that we have to fully distinguish these things from each other, but, also like knowing that, okay, this is it, I have to leave, right? Do you think that there's a difference between the two of just being burnt out or being like, nope, nope, this isn't the right place for me?

Speaker 1 (10:56.396)

Yeah, I think there can be a difference. And I think it takes getting like really, really deeply connected with your intuition to decipher what the difference is. Because I think like, you know, the working world ebbs and flows, you know, for anyone that's in kind of the corporate business world, or even the education system. There's definitely like busy seasons, right? So there are certainly times where maybe you're going to be committed to more hours or bigger projects and

things that require maybe more of you than the norm. And that I think is a different maybe distinguishment than I don't even want to complete the simplest task of my job. Like I don't want to get there on time. I don't want to go to these meetings. I don't even want to send this follow-up email. To me, that's very different than just like, okay, I came off of a busy season, but I'm going to give myself permission to recharge and reconnect with like the

the love and passion that I have for my job versus just like, you know, like what I just said, the smallest thing, feeling like such an unbearable task, which is kind of where I was getting to, to be honest.

I resonate with this so much. I'm trying to hold back. It's so funny. Yeah. And actually as I'm coming upon leaving my career behind and my job behind and my space and corporate behind, actually, there are two things. But one of them, think about this as I'm stepping out, I can feel that more and more and more and more, right? Like I'm like, I don't want to log on when I have to log on. I don't want to do this email. Like the simplest things that normally like take

even no energy, right? Are almost extreme drainers for me, energy-wise, because there's so much resistance to wanting to do them. I'm like, man, I'm trying not to check out, but I'm like, so checking out. Yeah. How did you manage that when you were leaving year nine to five?

Speaker 1 (12:50.35)

Bye!

Speaker 1 (12:55.278)

I was in a similar place to you, Marnie, where I knew I was leaving quite some time before the actual last day. So that last, you know, I'd say month felt really challenging. I'm not gonna lie. I can't say I navigated it perfectly. It was really, really challenging to show up. But what I decided to do was

I decided to just have fun with it. And I shifted my mindset a little bit to say, okay, Kelly, you've been in this game for 15 years and you are ready to embark on a new journey. What can you pull out of this last, however much time it is, months, two months, couple of weeks even, like, what can you pull out of this and have gratitude for? What lessons did you learn in your career that you can take away into this next phase of life?

you know, how can you maybe brighten someone's day in these last couple of weeks? So I tried to just like, have a little bit of fun with it, try to be light and airy with it of, you know, beyond, we all know the negative feelings of it, right? The, way I can't wait to get the heck out of here, but I had spent so much time with that feeling that it was like, that's not useful anymore because I already know there's a deadline coming. I already know there's an exit date. So like, how can I make this a bit more serving and positive and

How can I leave like a mark that resonates with other people?

I love that so much. Just that statement of that's not useful anymore. So what else can I do? What's going to serve me? What's going to serve others? That's so much wisdom there. Yeah. Okay. What else? There was something else. Yeah. then, okay, last thing. And then I want to kind of shift into like, where are you now? But in thinking about your departure from the nine to five space in the corporate space,

Speaker 2 (14:53.494)

You mentioned there was this mix of both strategy and like leap, right? And what I immediately thought was no matter how prepared we are, are we really prepared? So can you talk me through that and just how that felt and how you landed and then even just sharing where you are now.

Yeah, I'm trying to like put myself back in that place of where I was last year. You're never going to be ready to make a big decision. You know, the old saying goes like, if you're waiting to be ready, you're going to wait forever. And I fully wholeheartedly believe that statement. Like ready is a decision, not a feeling. So I at least had to get myself to the place of

I'm ready to be uncomfortable. Like maybe not ready to go into the unknown and feel like amazing about it, but I was ready to just take the first little baby step. And like I said, like it took some time for me to build that connection with myself and with my spirituality, like basically throughout the entire course of 2020 to set myself up for that 2021 decision to leave because

had I not have done that deeper inner work and started really building this like dynamic of trust in the divine and in the universe, that decision never would have come to fruition because I would have been stuck in the fear cycle and I would have been stuck in the belief that I need to hold on to this job for security and safety and financials and all that stuff. So it certainly was this like, all right, I've built enough trust.

not only in myself, but in the laws of the universe that like, if I take this leap of faith and I start exploring something more purposeful, like that will come back to me. And that's a difficult process, you know, especially for someone that has grown up just like only knowing this kind of childhood and societal programming that a lot of us went through, right? So it's a lot of unlearning and unwinding of old beliefs.

Speaker 1 (17:03.726)

to get yourself set up to that point and then really working on embodying the new beliefs. And so I had to do a lot of embodiment around like, I trust what's on the other side of this. It's okay to be uncertain. I trust that I can create safety for myself even when it feels uncomfortable because there has been a lot of discomfort over the last year of unknown, right? Like especially as I'm building my coaching business and I'll talk about that in a sec, but it's not the...

It's not the same feeling of safety and security as your nine to five is, but like learning to be okay with that and giving yourself permission to be okay with that is where the like real fun work is. So yeah, so, know, and after leaving in May, I went through my coach certification program and launched my business towards the end of last year on 11-11. And that has been such

an incredible learning experience for me. I've never been an entrepreneur before. So it's a very different feeling than being an employee and having your schedule structured and rigid and you know exactly what you're supposed to be doing week in and week out, right? And as a new entrepreneur and as a coach building their business, there's a lot of freedom, which is great.

if you know how to manage it, and that's where the learning was for me was, okay, how do I spend my days now? And where am I needed? And like trial and error, what's gonna work? What's not gonna work? So those are a lot of the things I've spent the first couple of months of my business, like really playing around with and trying to have fun with, because it's really easy to get bogged down and be like, this isn't working. You know, like I'm gonna fail at this. The old ego voice comes back.

So that's where the work has been for me is just like playing around with having fun with that freedom of owning your own business and figuring out what works not only for you, but for your clients.

Speaker 2 (19:08.176)

man, I love that. And I love that you mentioned just the discomfort and the unknown. I could like feel my soul pulling to that because I'm about to be in that same place, right? I feel for the past, I don't know, 10 to 12 years I've been in some sort of like full-time secure capacity where I'm gonna get paid every two weeks or at least twice a month, right? And it's a very different feeling than like,

When is, when am I going to get paid again? Like what exactly is going on, right? Am I going to get more clients? Like what, what is going to pay the bills? How do I move and shift things? So I want to hear a little bit about that. How do you, how do you navigate the unknown and how do you let yourself experience and explore and know when to be consistent with something versus when, okay, maybe this isn't working anymore.

Yeah, that's a good question. And I cannot say that I am the expert. I don't think I'll ever be the expert because I think I'm someone who's always learning and always growing. But navigating the discomfort for me has really been about letting it be okay to be uncomfortable, which is really hard because it doesn't feel good in the moment.

you want to get out of it really fast. It's like a yoga pose, right? Like when you're just in that super uncomfortable pose, you're like, me out of here. It's kind of, it's kind of like that same feeling. But like what I continue to learn over time is that like the discomfort is where a lot of the wisdom drops and where a lot of the learning lessons are, even if they're not immediately present right in that moment, like oftentimes it'll come to me very shortly after I move out of that stage of being uncomfortable.

And then I also try to just have fun with the uncomfortable of like, rather than looking at it from a fear lens, which we're trained to do, we're trained to be very fearful and scared of something unknown. I try to like retrain my brain to look at it from wonder and possibility. Like, like I don't know what the next, you know, next amount of months my business looks like. Awesome. What do I get to create?

Speaker 1 (21:29.08)

What do I get to design? Who do I get to serve? Who do I get to connect with? That's a practice though. So like I've had to become very ritualistic with self coaching and self thought work. Every morning I'm like, even on the days I don't want to, every morning though I'm in my journal like brain dumping. What are the thoughts I'm having about myself today? What are the thoughts I'm having about my business today? What are the thoughts I'm having about my clients today?

and really trying to bridge any gaps that there may be of thoughts that are not serving where I want to go, you know, as a coach. So that is gonna be a lifelong practice, which is totally okay. The thoughts will always be there, you know? And it's a matter of just getting in and looking at them and rewiring the ones that you feel like aren't serving you.

Yeah, I love this so much because this is such a, it's a, it's first of all, just so wise. But secondly, such a practical, tangible thing that literally anyone can start doing right now, like in their nine to five, in their business, in their life, in their relationships, just like, what am I even thinking about this? And what do I want to be thinking about this? How do I want to be feeling about this? Where are the gaps?

How can I eliminate those, right? What are the things I'm thinking that are not serving me and how do I, because I feel like, yeah, just becoming aware of that is such a massive thing. And then to have a solid tangible practice of journaling it out every day is so beautiful.

Yeah. I mean, we talk to ourselves all day long. I can't remember what the figure is, but we tell ourselves, you know, some ridiculous amount of thousands of thoughts per day. And so if that's happening, like we have to get really clear on what are those thoughts that we're telling ourselves about ourselves, because that's ultimately going to shape our outcomes in life that we desire. And so like, if, you're seeing that there's an incongruence with where you want to be, what you're visualizing for yourself,

Speaker 1 (23:29.302)

And what those thoughts are like, boom, that's where the work is, is in between there.

so juicy. What else? There was something else I wanted to go into.

Speaker 2 (23:45.634)

Yeah, actually, let's kind of like continue along this path of this transformation, but shift slightly. I would love to hear from you because this has been coming up so much in the community here of how have things shifted in your personal life as you completely transformed your professional life. And specifically, like, I want to talk about relationships and, you know, the relationships, because this is something that comes up so often of...

you know, I'm going through this awakening and now I don't know what to do with my family or no one gets it or I don't know to do with my partner or, you know, there are some friends that I've had for years, but now I can feel this weirdness, right? I would love to hear for you what your experience has been, how it continues to be, how you navigate that, because I think this is such a place of anytime there's love, right? There's conflict. That doesn't have to be, but oftentimes when we're growing, we feel that, right?

Yeah, oh, this is such a good question, Marie, because this is home for me right now, having gone through a pretty deep season of shedding and then shedding all over again. It's continued, especially this past year. And I talked earlier about 2020 just in terms of shedding that marriage, being home and isolated, really kind of getting the message around like what

my career was meant to be and what it was not meant to be. then, you know, ultimately transitioning out of my nine to five shedding that. So it was a lot of shedding all at once of just big things. And what I don't think I was prepared for or realized was that meant shedding a lot of friendships too.

Friendships and social circles that I had been in prior to those big life changes were beautiful and lovely and served their purpose at that time. But as we evolve as human beings, the people around you have one one of two options and that is they evolve with you, which is beautiful, or you evolve away from each other. And that's beautiful and that's okay too.

Speaker 1 (25:57.166)

But that is a sense of grief that I wasn't expecting because I've been through a lot of seasons the last couple of years that have felt very, very lonely because I have always felt like I'm different, you know? And I know a lot of people out there, especially those that listen to your platform, like feel the same way. They feel like, where do I belong? Where do I fit in? And I had to work through that thought of coming to this

place of being okay that it's like, I'm not meant to fit in. But at the same time, I still want a sense of community. I still want a sense of sisterhood. And I'm in the process of building that now. It's not quite where I envision like where a true sisterhood is meant to be. So that's in the works. And to be totally honest, like it's a struggle sometimes. Like there are some days where I feel like, gosh, like I don't have any friends, you know, like that's the story I tell myself. And then there's other days where I feel really good about the connections that I do have.

But yeah, like losing some of those like very long-term friendships is really challenging. And so I think my advice to people out there, if you're going through that transition of whether it's a relationship that you're mourning or friendship, or even your job, like allow that grief to be present and make sure you take time to grieve it. Whether that's just like getting into a ceremony with yourself to like...

close out that chapter of life or to close out that connection. You know, let yourself do that. I just did a burn ceremony last week, actually, for some old feelings of grief and guilt that came up that I thought were healed. And of course, as with the healing process, like sometimes it comes up again when you least expect it. And so I really wanted to like, get my thoughts down on paper and burn that and continue to release it.

Yeah, like it's challenging, but there's also a lot of beauty in it too. mean, I've been able to come into a beautiful sacred union with my King who we were absolutely meant to reconnect in this lifetime and many lifetimes before and after this. so making space for that and working on building our future together has been so incredible and so beautiful. And so there is light on the other side of that.

Speaker 1 (28:21.506)

darkness and that dark season of grief. So it's cyclical, just like most things in life.

Yeah. this is so good. So I love that you tapped into the grief that we feel when we start to outgrow our surroundings, the people, the places, the habits, the cycles, the patterns, right? Cause I think it's all of it. And there's like, I don't know, this is, this is something I've been experiencing oftentimes when we're shedding specifically people, but even like habits and cycles that we go through.

there's a level of comfort that exists, right? And like what we've known for so long and there's a level of comfort that almost keeps us small. And then there's like the comfort that also comes from growing, think, especially when you continue to grow and grow and grow and then so much discomfort with that. And I think because of that, there's this almost teeter tottering that can happen whenever we do have someone in our lives and we're not sure if they should be in our lives anymore. have.

maybe a practice or a family member. And we're not really sure what to do because there are so many almost things on both sides of the list of like, but this person's so great. And they've done all these things for me or I've done all these things for them. And we're so connected in all of these ways. And then there's this complete, again, like unknown of like what happens whenever they're no longer there and how do I work through that? And then all the grief that comes along with that. I think a lot of that, the grief comes from losing that

It's like losing that feeling of comfort, even if it wasn't the safest comfort, even if it wasn't the most expansive place, even if we couldn't be fully vulnerable. And it's like when the grief creeps in, sometimes it's easy to even forget like, man, why wasn't this serving me? Like, why am I letting go of this? So I think that's so beautiful just to your invitation of allowing the grief to come in and to be with it and to be present with it and to...

Speaker 2 (30:14.262)

even like ritualize or ceremony it, have ceremony with it, right? Sit in ceremony together for that alchemization to happen. So for you, I'm curious, how do you, how have you navigated this time of knowing relationships or we could even say thoughts or patterns or cycles, practices, knowing when it is time to actually release.

Yeah, that's a good question and it's a hard one too. But I feel like the messages and the signs and the symbols continue to get louder when you know it's time. You know, I can think of a couple of friendships and activities, hobbies that I used to partake in that every once in while, like I want to go back to. And to be clear, like that's not a bad thing.

think we have to just completely let go and release everything that was our old way, right? And I, I think that at a time I was trying to be so embodied in my new self that it was just like, was denying old parts of myself. It's like, that's not necessarily healthy either. Like it's, you don't have to just completely do a 180, right? But I was finding that like, I wasn't getting the same

I guess, energetic exchange in return from the thing or the person. Friendships that were thriving when I was in my darkest hour were no longer thriving now that I'm on the other side of that and in a much better place. And that was a message to me that it's like, does this connection value our friendship the same way that I do? So that was a question that I had to play with.

And over time, those messages just become so much more clear because it doesn't feel the same. Like you're not getting that same response. And same with activities too, like old gyms that I used to go to or happy hours at the bar down the street. Like to be clear, like that stuff is fun and still a part of my life from time to time, but it doesn't hold the same presence that it did previously because as I've evolved,

Speaker 1 (32:35.67)

my connection to that activity has evolved. Therefore, I'm not getting the same level of fulfillment and joy that I once did. And that's okay. And the one thing that I would want to tell your listeners, Marie, is like, if you are in this phase of releasing and letting go some of these things, hobbies, activities, behaviors, people, but the new thing hasn't come in yet. And so you're sort of in this limbo in between.

embrace that and be okay with it. I had found myself in a place where was like, so badly wanted to call in like, high vibrational, you know, sisters and new friends immediately after like shedding some of the old friendships and it didn't happen in that timing. And so that's when I felt myself pulled to go back. And it's like, no, like Kelly, like it's okay to sit in this unknown in between as you're waiting for that new thing that you're calling in like,

Again, what goes back to what we were talking about earlier with the discomfort is learning to sit with it and be okay with it because there is something magical and special to be learned in that in-between moment.

Yeah. I love this so much because I think about, I mean, honestly, just myself and romantic relationships throughout my life. For most of my life, I was like a serial dater, like person to person, a person to person. Like sometimes there'd be like small gaps, right?

But I was like a serial like monogamous, right? And I say person to person, person to There haven't been that many people, but you know what I mean? It's like, you go right into the next thing. And I think sometimes we do this with friendships. Sometimes we do this with jobs, right? Like we don't want to make a move until we have the next move. Like there's this idea of we want to know what the guarantee is. And like recently in my own shedding, we could say, I...

Speaker 2 (34:28.757)

I have had to sit with it, right? Like there's been a long period of time of just being fully in the in-between of, know this isn't working. I don't know what's gonna come. I'm not gonna look for what's gonna come. I'm just gonna be here. I'm just gonna be in the uncomfortable. I'm gonna be in the grief. I'm gonna be in the distress. And I've learned that one, we can trust ourselves to lead ourselves through the discomfort, right? Like we can trust ourselves to find the right answer when the right thing comes.

And then also it's almost exactly what you said earlier actually that the wisdom often drops in, in the discomfort. I would say the wisdom and also the clarity. It's so funny. I was just talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago about a relationship that I was just so conflicted and unsure about for a very, very, very long time, like over a year. And it was through this giving myself the time and the space

and allowing myself to be in the discomfort and in the grief of not even just this relationship, but like all the relationships that I just like try to move away from, right? I just try to like quickly jump into the next thing, be distracted from numb myself out from like in, in moving or shifting. It was like through the space that so much clarity came forward about just who I even am and what it is that I even want, right? And

the clarity that is so strong that there's almost no question in going forward that I'm choosing what's serving me, as opposed to, think, whenever we don't give ourselves the time for that wisdom to drop in, there can still be a little bit of tottering, right? There could be a little teeter totter that still happens for a while until you're, even when you're well-rooted and the thing that you know is right for you, there can always still be that little like, did I do the right thing? But it's like this beautiful.

space that I found where, wow, when I give myself the space, I actually know the answer like deeply, right? So I love that. I love that so much.

Speaker 1 (36:31.744)

Yeah, it's, it doesn't feel beautiful at the time, right? Like it's so painful and you're just like, you're like tapping out, like, please, like enough. But you know, anyone that is working, working to trust this, piece of the process, this limbo phase, as I call it, like I would ask that person to reflect on a previous time in life where they sat through something unknown.

write down what that situation is and then write down all the lessons you learned from it. Because by doing that practice, like you're building the evidence for yourself that you have made it through an unknown and uncomfortable time before. And you're also telling yourself that you have evidence of the lessons that were involved with that. So therefore you can apply that to the present moment that you're in and trust that there is a lesson that you will at some point in the future, like know to be true.

You know, I did that a lot with the 2019, 2020 era of my life when so much just felt like chaos and change. And I just could not for the life of me figure out why it was happening. And now I can so clearly look back on that time and be like, that was all happening for me for like two pages of lips of why and why it happened period and why it happened at that time. Like there were so many things that I can point to. So I would just ask someone to like,

Go through that exercise to help build that trust with yourself that there is something to be learned in this moment.

I love that so much. and even just adding to that. something that one of my coaches talked me through, I don't know, probably six weeks ago, she was telling me that in a massive relationship rupture, breaking apart that she experienced, she almost misses. She, she like romanticized about time so much that she almost misses the experience is what she was saying. And so as I was talking to her through my situation, she was like, write everything down.

Speaker 2 (38:34.304)

And even in leaving my job, was talking to her about the discomfort I was feeling in leaving and not knowing what's coming. And then also not even wanting to show up anymore because I know that I'm leaving, but I, you know, feel in my heart and holding integrity that I need to show up and just all of those things happening. And she's like, write down, write it all down, write it all down in detail, because you're going to want to remember how this feels. And it's going to get you through so many other things. And, and I found that as I started practicing this and allowing myself to really write down the intimate

icky, really hard, deep, heavy moments. That in itself was so healing. Like, wow, okay. I don't even feel this anymore. Right. And I remember, I don't know, four or five weeks ago feeling like I'm never going to get out of this. Right. Like, you know, when you're in the depths of it you're just like, I literally thought I'm going to be depressed for a year. That's what I was telling myself. I was like, I'm going to be like this for a year. And it's like this, cause this entire past since, January.

So I feel like so much has blown up in my life in a very beautiful way, but in a very, in a way that can be very painful. And it was this thing of like, my God, how am going to survive this? And how do I hold this heaviness throughout all of the contraction? Like while I'm expanding as well, because at the same time you always feel it that you're growing, right? And it's like in the depths of like the deepest heartbreak is where I think.

the biggest transformation can be catalyzed if we allow ourselves to step into that, right? So I just, yeah, I love this advice from you so much of just building the evidence that you can, you can, and you will get yourself through it. And fast forward a few weeks later, I'm like, life is great. You know what I mean? Like things have shifted so much, but I was literally just texting a friend like, man, I really never thought I would be happy. Like I truly in my, was questioning, am I going to be happy again? What does this mean for my business?

How do I lead other people if I'm in this darkness, in this dark area? And then what I found through my work is that we still can lead other people. And in fact, we actually are leading ourselves even in those dark moments. It's like, how can we remember that? How can we write it down and give ourselves, provide the evidence for it that we're doing fine?

Speaker 1 (40:50.664)

Ooh, I love what you just said about that because as leaders and coaches and mentors, it's so easy to fall into this trap that like we have to have it all figured out. Like everything that we went through in the past. And so now we're in this perfect place of like guiding and teaching and coaching and like, boom, everything's great. And it's like, no, like we're human beings too. And we are also on this journey with you, with our clients that like we're learning and growing and going through dark times.

Bill and more to come, I'm sure. And that's okay. Like that's perfectly okay. Like, because that, allows us to continue to embody like who we need to be as leaders and how we can show up best for our clients too, who are moving through difficult times.

I love that so much. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So what are you doing now? So yeah, let's talk about your work. Let's talk about what your day looks like. Let's talk about what your favorite thing to work on is your favorite, maybe like client topic, maybe favorite thing that you're working through. And I say favorite, but where your soul feels most drawn right now. What is that? What are you doing?

Yeah. so I've been in my coaching business, about six months now and having an absolute blast. Like I am so, so fulfilled each and every day with the work that I get to do and the clients that I get to serve. So a lot of the clients that I've had the pleasure of interacting with are typically in a place in life where they are looking for more purpose, looking for more fulfillment. They are, done with the like,

status quo, I would say they're done with feeling stuck. And they just have this deep knowing of like, there's more to life than what I'm doing right now. And that could be a career that could be a move that could be just evolving like lifestyle and how they are being every day. So that's a lot of what I'm really working with clients on right now and seeing a lot of themes around jobs, right? Like we talked a lot about.

Speaker 1 (42:58.446)

You know, we talk a lot about the great resignation, the great awakening, whatever you want to define it as. There's a lot of conversation about that with my clients right now. And then I mentioned earlier, but a lot of clients really looking for more purpose and really looking to understand like, does purpose actually mean? So that's something that I'm working on. lot of the clients that I'm working with right now are in a one-on-one capacity that will likely evolve at some time this year. So stay tuned.

More to come on that. yeah, it's been really fulfilling and just like seeing the impact that I can have with other people and be like, hey, like I resonate with you. I get it. I understand. And then be able to like help them return to who they are and create those breakthroughs. Like it's so incredible to be a witness.

And it's not me doing it, right? To be clear, I'm not some magic worker. It's really just being able to energetically connect with clients and guide them back to themselves. And it's really them doing the work. So it's beautiful to watch that.

I love this so much too. So I had a yoga teacher. She's totally still a yoga teacher of mine, but I remember maybe four years ago, I went to one of her classes and I was like, you kicked my ass at the end of class. was like, my gosh, you kicked my ass in that class. And she said, no, you, no, I didn't. You did. You kicked your own ass. And I was like, I guess I did. Right. And I love this.

perspective and this resonates so much with me as well because I do feel that it is the job of the guide, the coach, the teacher, the healer to always be bringing people back to themselves. And it's like the crux of the work is really just holding that safe space to allow people to do that, to allow people to remember like, actually that came from here. I did kick my ass, right? Or I am making the choices that I'm making. And I am, I am doing just fine.

Speaker 2 (45:07.148)

I know more than I think I know. So I think that's so, I love that. I love that a lot. And then I want to touch back in on purpose because this is an area where I focus quite a lot as well. And I would ask, you know, for anybody who is maybe feeling similar to some of your clients, maybe feeling the whisper that things maybe need to shift or change a little whisper calling of wanting to connect more deeply with themselves and what they're here to do.

what advice would you give them? What guidance would you give them in starting to connect with their purpose and starting to discover what fulfillment can be and how to even begin?

Yeah. such a good deep question. My response, my advice to someone who is looking for more meaning and more purpose is to rewire the thought that you have to go out and find purpose. Your purpose is not external from you. It is within you. It is coded into your DNA, into your soul.

That's step one. And that's a big step because we've been taught all these years that we have to go on this Zelda like excursion to go find our shiny purpose out there, right? So we have to go through all these hoops and battles to do it. And that's just simply not true. Our purpose is already embedded within us. We have to remember and unlock what that is. And so, you know, I would

I would ask folks out there that are maybe in this phase or struggling with this to first get really clear on who you are. And I don't mean from the identities that we traditionally use as a society, Like wife, mother, spouse, CEO, job type, whatever that is, right? Like shed all of that. Who are you at your most raw, vulnerable core?

Speaker 1 (47:13.74)

And then from there, there's a whole series of questions that, you know, I would take clients through to help like really tap into what is purposeful and meaningful, but like, it doesn't have to be this big, audacious, tricky quest for our entire life. Like it could be as simple as like right now, my purpose is to connect with you Marie on this podcast. It could be just something so simple throughout your day.

But yeah, like I would encourage people to really get clear on who they are and then, you know, start tapping into like what fills you up, what brings you joy, what do you get lost in? Where do you feel that spark, that light? Like we've all experienced that at some point in our life. It's a matter of tapping into like what were those instances? What was happening within you that created that?

Mm, I love this. And it's often these so in mentioning the sometimes the simplicity of purpose and meaning, I find that it's these, is the smallest, simplest forms that can be the most life altering and shifting for us, right. And I love to just this, well,

I sense a little bit of a theme in the rewiring of the thoughts, right? But rewiring of the thoughts that you have to go out and find purpose. This resonates so much and hits home with me so much because this is an unraveling. This is like a true process. It is a full unlearning. I've done like full three hour, find your purpose sessions with people. And then a week later, I get a message from them of like, yes, this really hit home. This really resonates. But how does this apply to my job?

How does this apply to the, like, right? Like what career should I go into because of this? And I'm like, and there's so much empathy there because we are so wired and tied to this idea that we have to be doing something or we have to be known as something or we need a particular title or there's like a thing outside of us that's gonna dictate what it is that we should be doing. I think when we find our, when we get to the edge of what our success is, when we get to the edge of fulfillment, it's actually working from the inside.

Speaker 2 (49:29.518)

out, right? Like it's actually starting within and then pulling whatever's inside of us and bringing it out into the world, which looks different for everyone. This is one of my favorite things is like, I think when we look at a life fully lived, it's very rarely rooted in one thing. You know, it's very rarely like this person just did this one single thing from the time they were born until the time they died or from the time they were age 20 until

65 or whenever they actually retire, right? So often, even if we stay in one job, even if we stay at one company, so often we still deviate and we try other things. And I think it's so important to do this because we realize that it's not the thing outside of us at all, but it's us expressing ourselves. And I think the most beautiful and fulfilled lives are those that, and careers even, are those that allow themselves to experience, to explore, to express in so many different ways.

and work in so many different ways. So I just think that's, it's important. Yeah. And then I want to talk also about this idea of who are you at your most raw core? This is a question that I come back to all the time. I think anytime I'm getting ready to make a big decision, anytime I feel conflict, anytime I'm like doing the thing where I'm identifying with something outside of myself, I'm like, who am I, who am I, who am I?

And there are times where I feel so clear in this and there are times where I don't even have an answer. So I would love to hear from you, how you guide people back to this and what your experience is with this question in yourself.

This question, had I have had to answer this question for my first 30 something years of life, that page would have been blank for decades because I would have just been like, I don't know. Like, because I used to identify who I was based on my identity. Like for the longest time it was, I'm a basketball player. Like I played basketball for 20 years and through college. And so that was my identity.

Speaker 1 (51:40.814)

That's what I knew myself as. And then after that, was like, like now what? well now I'm a recruiter, you know, and so on. Like, you see where it's going. So it wasn't until just the last few years, like I was able to really strip away those identities to really like get to this place of like, okay, I'm a spiritual being. I am a soul in this human body vessel here on earth to connect. So that's where I'm at today with that question.

but it's evolving just like our purpose does, right? And I find that when I have my clients go through the who am I exercise, there's a lot of stuckness that happens there because they've either not answered that question before or they don't know how to do it without a title or an identity. so it really is, it can be frustrating and like to be clear, that's okay. I don't.

put it out there to frustrate, but I do think that like, those are the types of questions that we have to ask ourselves to cut through the things that we have to unlearn to get to our core. And so it's met with a lot of resistance typically. But as they get through that and I see the glimmer of light and the breakthroughs happen, it's like, okay, like the wheels are turning.

know, with this person and like they're starting to like really discover who they are at their core and what they're about and what they stand for. So it's, it's a frustrating but fun exercise done with love.

I love this. I think, well, what came to me as you were talking is who you are will never limit you. And I think the same is true of purpose, right? Like the more you connect in with your purpose, the more infinite your possibilities will become, the more you actually can be, the more you can show up as, and also the less attached we are to how we're perceived, right? Because we realized that the way that we're perceived has nothing actually to do with who we really are, which is,

Speaker 2 (53:53.934)

can be challenging to fully like take on and embody, right? But it's also absolutely freeing when you do come to that realization because you're like, oh, it doesn't even matter. It doesn't even matter what job I'm in right now. It doesn't even matter how this person, it doesn't matter what outfit I'm wearing or what shoes I have on or what my favorite color is or what things I like or don't like. Like none of that actually, and how people perceive or take that in, none of that actually has anything to do with me.

It allows us to become so firmly rooted in ourselves to where it's almost like this unshakable level of confidence comes in and like unshakable level of worthiness and freedom, I think.

Yeah, totally. It's this reconnection of this knowing of like we're sovereign beings. Like we're free of any other structures, programming labels or what have you that like we were told we have to take on and absorb and accept. And we get to just like crumble all of that and just show up as we are. And to your point, like you said, like without worry of

what the perception from the outside world is now like that is that true all the time once you discover yourself like sure there's moments where your ego wants to speak up sometimes and you want to judge yourself sometimes. That's okay like that's that's perfectly fine like you're still learning and you're still growing but yeah it is a very freeing feeling like you said to get to this place of like my coach likes to call it zero fuck.

given. Just be who you are. And I find that like when I'm really embodying that and feeling that, to some days I don't feel that as much, but on the seasons that I do, that's when I'm like, magnetizing and calling in a lot of the things that I've desired, whether like consciously or even subconsciously. So it's really interesting to see how that works out.

Speaker 2 (55:59.694)

That's so good. Yeah, that's such a good thing to bring forward of whenever we are fully embodying that. It's almost like life just flows so much more effortlessly. The things that we want start to come to us as opposed to us having to force them to make them happen. One of my coaches was talking about how every morning she puts in her notes on her phone the things that she wants to accomplish.

she meditates on them and she goes for a walk and usually they solve themselves. Like one of the things, I think she posted about this on Instagram even, but one of the things was, you know, she was looking for a photographer and she just wrote that down, looking for a photographer and she ended, she actually met her photographer on her walk. Whereas a lot of times I think when we have this list of things we need to do, we think that, you know, I gotta go on Google and like look for a photographer and like find someone that's in alignment with me. And sometimes of course we do do those things, but.

I think there's this level of whenever we show up fully as ourselves, we're showing up and serving ourselves first as well. So taking care of ourselves, loving ourselves, maybe going for the morning walk or whatever the thing is, the things that we want actually like just come, right? So I think that's so beautiful. It's like the closer we can get to this, who am I? And the closer we can get to what am I here to do and what's really existent at the core, the less

we have to worry about what's going on around us because the more we find we're actually just, I like to think of it as we become one with nature, right? I don't think that, I don't know, flowers ask themselves what they need to do today, right? It's like they just are and things just move and happen. And yeah, I think that's beautiful.

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Speaker 2 (57:55.118)

So what's next for you?

So I am in a place right now where I am growing my one-on-one business. and I'll make sure that you have my socials for the show notes, but I am on Instagram and LinkedIn. So anyone who is feeling connected to my methods today or in a place where they're looking to explore purpose, fulfillment, shift out of being stuck, I do have capacity for one-on-one clients. And then I am working on a new offering that will probably

Drop this summer. I typically teach master classes quarterly. So stay tuned for updates on when my next one is going to be. So yeah, like a few different things in the works. And then just for fun, like a little bit of travel happening this summer too.

I love this. Where are going?

I am going to be going on a Southeastern Oregon road trip with my dad and my sister. we're going to be some exploration of part of the state out here that I've never seen. And then I will be flying out to the East Coast in Jersey to meet up with a dear, a full sister of mine for a little while. So I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 (59:05.792)

I love that. You'll have to let me know if you get down to NC. Love to see you. Thank you so much, Kelly. This has been just such a treat.

Of course.

Speaker 1 (59:17.582)

I appreciate you having me, Marie. Like, we can talk all day. But I just, appreciate you and I appreciate the opportunity to connect with your community as well. Thank you so much for having me.

You are so.

Episode 19. 7 Lessons from 7 Years at Microsoft (and Why I’m Leaving)

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.695)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover from The Corporate Psychic. My 7 year Microsoft anniversary is coming up and I'm also leaving the company. So this episode is an honouring of both events and a tribute to some of the things that I have learned in my time here thus far. 7 things to be particular.

July 6th, 2022 will be my seven year anniversary at Microsoft. It will also be my very last day. So I want to share some things that I've learned, seven things to be exact. And we're always learning as we go and I'm not gone yet. So stay tuned for an update. In the meantime, in the now, we'll start with number one. One of the first things that I learned at Microsoft,

that was actually directly spoken to me and to my incoming class of peers was, work-life balance is on you. It is at the discretion of the employee. And I have to say a hundred percent yes, at least in my experience and from what I have observed, to be really good with work-life balance is to become a master of boundaries. And it is also a lesson in teaching others, our peers, our managers, our mentors, our leaders,

how to be in working relationship with us. If there is ever an entity that can continually, without stop, without fail, produce more and more work for you to do every single day, every single minute of every day, it's gonna be a business. Now, something that I learned from TCP is that the energy behind corporations and businesses and roles is an all encompassing energy because it is not bound by anything physical or earthly.

there is truly no limit to it. Business energy is endless energy. And if you are not sure about this, I want you to think about your work day and when you decide to end it. Have you ever ended a work day where you have finished literally everything that is possible to do? And when you thought about your work on a project or on a team or for your organization, have you ever found a limit that you could do?

Marie Groover (02:28.086)

in improving the work that you're doing? I think not. Is there ever been a limit in knowing when something's completely gonna be finished or perfect? I think not. And I can echo the sentiment from an employee where I think I could work 24 hours a day and I still would not get everything that I would wanna get done. I still wanna get everything that I would think in my mind that I needed to get done.

And as a business owner, could triple this feeling. So lesson number one, work-life balance is on you. You decide what works for you, and then you have to follow through and enforce it. If you don't want anyone calling you when you're on vacation, then don't put your cell phone number and you're out of office. Lesson number two, soft skills are more important than hard skills. And I would extend this to say,

How you do one thing is how you do most all things. What I mean by this is that within our being, we have many habits and patterns that make up our character and how we tend to action, respond, react, et cetera. Some of these are conscious patterns. Some of these are subconscious patterns. The more aware you are of yourself, the more effective you will be in any role or environment that you serve within. I have worked in

extremely technical roles. I've worked in high level programmatic roles. I've worked in deep and operational business roles. I have flexed between the field, the customer, the product, corporate, you name it. And it has been my soft skills every single time that have tended my growth, that have solutioned my way out of every dilemma that I have faced. And that ultimately makes me someone that you actually want to work with.

Soft skills and personal development is important. Why is this more important than hard skills? Some of you might say, I just need someone who can do the actual job. And you do need that. But likely you want someone who is capable and competent enough to do the job, but that is also able to see and read context, who can look beyond the job itself, who can contribute to the team intentionally and who can get along diplomatically with others. Someone who can grow with you, who

Marie Groover (04:48.558)

can grow with your team and your business. Because seldom are we working in silos and seldom do we work on things that don't evolve over time. If you have a competent employee with good character or soft skills, you can teach them most any hard skill. It's way easier to teach someone how to deploy PKI than it is to teach them how to have a growth mindset, how to be excited about their work, how to be kind to other people. Though these are not impossible to learn or teach, by the way.

There just needs to be a willingness. Okay, the third thing I learned. Being busy and being productive are not one and the same. I'm gonna say that again. Being busy and being productive are not one and the same. Productivity knows the bottom line. Productivity moves the needle. Productivity prioritizes projects and tasks based on what moves the needle.

And actually, productivity and work-life balance are very good friends. It is easy to become busy. It is easy to find work. It is easy to create work, to live a life constantly checking off boxes, to constantly be planning as opposed to doing. It is easy to get carried away by the list. And sometimes, busyness feels like productivity. But being busy is actually equivalent

to cleaning your room when you should be writing a paper. It might feel good when you're done cleaning your room that is, but it doesn't get you closer to the finished product. It is not what moves the needle. If you can learn to discern and act in productivity rather than in busyness, then you will thrive and your career will grow. Number four, the importance of managing up.

I cannot stress this one enough. Just like you are the owner of your life and thus your work-life balance, you are also the owner of your career. No one else is managing your career for you. In fact, it is not even in your manager's job description to be managing your career. Your manager is supposed to manage you to ensure that you are productive and not busy and that your work is moving the needle, not that your work

Marie Groover (07:14.998)

is moving the needle of your career. Not that you are happy and thriving in your workplace and job and team. These are bonuses by the way, because a good manager will do these too. But ultimately, it is all up to you to ensure that you are making of your work and life and career what you want of it. Your manager's job is to do what's best for the business. Your job is to do what's best for you. The fifth thing I've learned.

The best managers are the ones who are clear. Have you ever worked for a revolutionary leader, a visionary and innovator, someone that when you're around them or on a call with them, you are just blown away? There's an energy there that is palpable and it is an incredible experience. And you can draw from this energy and get so inspired and so motivated to work. And it's a beautiful thing only if their vision translates in a way.

that is clear to execute on. Now for some of you, that is your job. Your job is to make clear whatever it is that needs to happen to get the vision built. But for many people, you are not that close to the vision and it can be quite hard to determine what exactly it is that you can do or should be doing that moves the needle. And what I've found is that while it's amazing to work for a leader that inspires you, it's actually better

It's easier, it's much less stress inducing. When you have a manager who can translate to you clarity of what exactly needs to be done. And I have to say my current manager is a gold star clarity producer. And this my friends has been a game changer for me. If you are a manager out there, if there is one thing that I would advise you to work on and value as a manager, it would be to bring clarity to your people.

People, no matter how visionary you are, no matter how inspiring you are, no matter how people-oriented you are, if your people do not know what their jobs are or how to do them, they will eventually leave, probably because they have anxiety that they are not doing it right, or because they actually aren't doing it right. And manager, that is on you. People who have managers,

Marie Groover (09:39.178)

If there's one area where you can constantly be improving your relationship with your manager, it is to increase the level of clarity that you can draw from them. Again, this will be a game changer for your career because it's so much easier to do your job when you know what your job is. Okay, so number six, the sixth thing that I've learned. Leaders are humans, just like anyone and everyone else.

this learning right here. I remember before I worked in my first chief of staff office, I would get on calls with leaders on a somewhat regular basis and I would just share about the work that I was doing at that time or report something out. I was very rarely nervous, but I didn't really see them as real people. I was so far removed from understanding what our leaders, our top leaders and executives did. I was so far removed from understanding what they really cared about and

I had a bit of conditioning that taught me to look a certain way around them, speak a certain way around them, to maybe embellish whatever I was working on. I don't know. And I did feel a desire to impress or in the very least to get it right. Except I had no idea what get it right meant because again, I was so far removed and I don't mean by level. I don't mean by like number of people between me and my leaders.

I mean, I was so far removed in experience and knowledge and awareness of what they cared about. And then I started working in a chief of staff office focusing on leadership enablement. So suddenly I was in a room of leaders on a weekly basis and I was preparing their agendas and content for meetings and gathering content across the orgs and hearing them talk and hearing their feedback. And I realized that the beautiful presentations with the perfect phrasing and the

the nice looking data, it didn't matter so much. It didn't matter so much as the work that was actually being done. I learned that there was far too much polish and far too much context and far too much fawning over our leaders as opposed to just showing the work. And that our leaders just wanted to see the work because ultimately they are accountable for the work just like literally everyone else. On top of that,

Marie Groover (11:56.32)

our leaders, all have their own lives and their own interests. And most of them are actually not interested in working 24 seven. Of course they aren't, but there is still this interesting thing that happens. I witness it all the time where when someone is in the presence of a leader and by leader, by the way, I mean like executive corporate vice president, general manager, someone like really high up in your company. When, when someone's in front of or in the presence of a leader, something that I've seen is that it takes

almost nothing for misunderstanding to occur. You see, I think there's a disconnect because other people also forget that our leaders are human. So I see this a lot where a leader will ask for something, something simple, something pretty clear, and an entire team will spin up around building out the deck and the context and sometimes even go off in the wrong direction because they failed to hear from the human in front of them what was asked. And this is on our leaders to demonstrate and hold people accountable

but it's also on us as individuals to remember that when you are working, engaging with anyone, you can drop the corporate speak and you can just be you. And you can just see the person in front of you as a human being. And I promise you that when you do, you will become far more productive together. Okay, number seven, how you lead yourself is how you lead those around you.

I know I already said that soft skills are more important than hard skills, but to go even deeper than that, I have learned that personal development is unavoidable if you want to grow in your career. I have learned that every moment is an opportunity to lead ourselves and thus will impact those we work with, thus will lead the people around us. You don't have to have a title of manager or GM or VP to be in leadership.

And leadership is definitely not about control or providing direction or even injecting your opinions or insights or making anyone do anything for you. Leadership is a way of being in the world. It's a way of being in your workplace. It is a form of integrity in self. Leadership is an embodiment of values and principles and character. It is a deep rooted confidence and knowing.

Marie Groover (14:19.572)

It is an openness in receiving and learning, a flexibility of boundaries, enough to listen to those around you, but an ultimate groundedness in what is true. It is not about expressing, guiding, directing, managing, definitely not about controlling anyone around you. And actually you are always in leadership. If you can become aware of that and practice embodying the leader that you would like to become,

If you can extend yourself grace and kindness and compassion with accountability, the greater and faster you and your career will evolve.

So that sums up the seven things I learned in my seven years at Microsoft. Don't get me wrong, there are so many more than these seven things, but I felt that these were pretty important. And if you haven't signed up already, sign up for the Quantum Leap. It's a four to four and a half week series that I'm leading in my last four weeks at Microsoft. It will include one to three live sessions a week, plus a beautiful organization of all materials and video replays in a course format for you to keep.

The theme is around building your own business, product, team, offerings, whatever you want, in integrity, with sustainability, with scale in mind, and while managing your nine to five alongside it. Many of these lessons, the ones from here, like the seven things that I've learned working at Microsoft in the last seven years, and so much more will be covered in in-depth training and coaching throughout this series. I hope to see you there. And thank you.

for being here.

Marie Groover (16:03.382)

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. If you enjoyed this episode, if this episode resonated with you or even triggered you, I invite you to share it, rate it five stars, follow it and reach out with any questions, topic requests or to work together on your career, business, life or healing. I am here and I can't wait to meet again, maybe next week.

on this podcast.

Episode 18. Fuck Branding, Be You: Authenticity and Belonging at Work

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.554)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover from The Corporate Psychic. This episode is about sharing our true selves and the feeling of belonging in the workplace. In my opinion, it's about branding yourself or learning corporate speak, and it's especially not about conforming to who and what is around you. It's actually about practicing being intentionally who you are

and sharing that, despite the initial discomfort. If this episode resonates, I ask that you give it five stars on whatever platform you're streaming and that you share with someone that may be liberated by listening. Okay, let's get to it.

Marie Groover (00:53.388)

I noticed a funny pattern this week at Microsoft. If you follow me on social media, you know that I believe that you can be spiritual at work, that you can be your full self at work, that you can have a nine to five and build your dream life, including owning your flexibility and your boundaries. And you'll know that I believe that your job, your career, it should work for you and not the other way around. And yet many of us

fall into the other way around. We base entire lives off of our jobs. We even move closer to our jobs to cut the commute versus living where we want to. We flex and bend so much to make our work and our work lives work out. That we forget that the reason we are working is for us, for money, for the freedom that comes with money, for whatever it is that we value.

Anyways, I have generally not had the problem with being authentic at work in any of the places I've ever worked. I have not felt too much pressure to be a certain way or look a certain way or dress or act a certain way. I'm fortunate in that way. Though I did one time get feedback from a boss that my facial expressions need to be brought into check in executive meetings because someone once asked, can she handle being in this room? To which, by the way, I understood completely

and also rolled my eyes. Even when I joined Microsoft. So maybe you've heard in a previous episode that I came in as a part of a group of people in the Aspire program. This program is amazing. And in the weeks before joining, there are these trainings to start to prep you about maximizing your career, to get you pumped up to join, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And one of them was a training on branding yourself. I'm sharing this right now because I am so myself.

And I believe myself to be so infinite of a being with unlimited possibilities that I rebel against being put in a box or a container or a labeled space. I encourage others to rebel against it too. It doesn't feel expansive to me. It doesn't feel integrative or all inclusive. And you know that I am all about integration of all parts of self. Hello, the corporate psychic. So branding.

Marie Groover (03:21.045)

at least in the way that it was being taught, didn't do it for me. So I said, fuck branding. And when I got feedback about my facial expressions, I said, fuck that too. By the way, when you allow yourself to be your full self, you do radiate a unique brand and a unique experience that's all your own. And it's easy to be consistent because you, no matter how inconsistent you feel you are,

No matter how multifaceted or multidimensional you actually are, you are perfectly consistent, predictably unpredictable, constantly growing and expanding, and yet very much still you. But back to me. I work with leaders and my job is leadership enablement. And I actually really love this work because it reminds me every day that leaders are humans, just like you and I.

and they have feelings and emotions and experiences and they hold big life experiences alongside their work. And they ultimately are the best jugglers of all the important things or they all have personal assistants, which usually it's both, right? Like that's a really important part of juggling is knowing when to delegate.

It's important to say that they generally all have good intentions as well and are all good people. I have worked for very few shitty leaders despite horror stories that circulate the internet. I know there's a common thought or phrase that floats around about CEOs being sociopathic, but I'm in the room with corporate leaders almost every day and I would guess that a very, very small percentage of them are sociopathic. And I am psychic, remember?

Just kidding. So back to me again. How could someone who has so boldly been able to be herself in the workplace? Someone who has said fuck branding, fuck managing the appearance of my emotions, fuck wearing high heels, even though I do work in tech, so the dress can be kind of lax. How could someone like myself end up working in roles with such high levels of trust and responsibility?

Marie Groover (05:37.163)

Well, I think the humanist in me appealed to some of the humanists and the people who decided to hire me over teams and over time. And I do think my work is good. But why am I saying all of this? I'm saying all of this because since I have made it public, and by public I mean, sent in my official letter of resignation to my manager and to her manager and to our HR team. Since I've made it official that I'm leaving, my boldness.

has faded. Funny, huh? I am one who has strong work-life boundaries. When the waves are good, I email the team and I go surf. When I'm tired, I take breaks. I log off. When I'm not feeling it, I give myself grace and compassion. And if I need to pass off work, I do. When I'm in the groove, I allow myself to flow through it and I mostly still always log off in time for dinner or an after work adventure. My life

has truly been prioritized over my work for a solid five to six years now. And I am myself at work, my full self. On my last team, I hosted an astrology happy hour, which was a hit by the way. And I truly believe that it's both of these things, authenticity and strong boundaries that kept me from burning out and were strong contributors to my performance and my reputation, which I think is a good one.

And yet, since I have officially resigned, aka sent in my letter of resignation for July 6, 2022, I have been self-conscious as fuck. I have felt compelled to work until 8 or 9 p.m. every night. I have felt compelled to say yes to things I would never say yes to. And I felt more compelled than ever to even try to be more polished.

And I would feel guilt or shame or embarrassment when I wasn't polished or extremely on top of things. It's this weird thing that has happened where I'm suddenly so consciously aware of what it feels like to feel unsafe and like maybe I don't belong. Because suddenly I felt it. And nothing had actually changed that would validate this feeling, by the way. But recently more than ever, I felt this desire for approval from my peers.

Marie Groover (08:03.615)

approval from my co-workers, from all the people around me, which to be fair, I don't think I will ever get, nor do I need it. I don't need approval to be who I am. You don't need approval to be who you are. I don't need approval to leave my job. I don't need approval to step fully in my business. Neither do you if any of you are looking for it.

I don't need approval to like what I like and work on what I want to work on and dedicate my life to what I want to dedicate my life to and my time to, by the way. And again, neither do you. This is my whole entire point actually. For the first time in five to six years, I understand how so many of you feel when you reach out to me and say, how can I be spiritual at work? When you say, how can I be my full self? My team would never respect me.

My team would never understand. My company would outcast me. And especially when you say things like, I don't belong.

To which I will now respond much more empathically, by the way. But in the same way that I always have, which is, you do belong. You are exactly where you are for a reason. And that reason is not for you to mask your true self and conform to whoever you think you need to be. Fuck branding. Fuck putting yourself into a box. Fuck wearing heels unless you like them.

And for God's fucking sake, sit at the goddamn table. No one will ever see you as you until you show up as you. No one is ever gonna see something in you if you're not demonstrating it openly and outwardly. No one will ever ask for your input or validate your being or even invite you if you aren't already showing up in some way. So take up space, say what you're thinking.

Marie Groover (10:02.463)

If you are wrong, so fucking what? You will learn. You don't get to the top by hiding in the corner. You practice being yourself. You practice showing up. You practice sharing who you really are. And then it gets easier and then it becomes natural. And when you show up fully, as long as you are kind, respectful, well-intentioned, which maybe means that you have to share your intentions,

As long as you commit to continuing to grow as a human, aka understanding yourself, working to better communicate with others, no, not corporate speak, but learning how to speak in a way that is genuine and clear and calm and confident. You're not going to get fired. In fact, you might change the entire culture around you. You might find that you do belong and that you are actually essential. The Dalai Lama says, no one is special.

We are each and all essential. And I mean, the worst possible scenario is that you do get fired. I'm joking. So I wanna open this up. I know it's just me today talking at you and I would love for you to email me directly or reach out to me on LinkedIn or Instagram. You can reach me at hello at thecorppsychic.com and my info is in the episode description. I want you to tell me all.

of your biggest fears and showing up at work. I want you to share with me all your questions and thoughts for being authentic, for bringing the spiritual to the workplace, for sharing more of who you are with the world around you, with your home, with your family, with your friends, with your coworkers, with people you don't know, with strangers. When you go on first dates, everything. I wanna hear and I wanna support. And for the record,

This funny thing that I noticed where I felt so self-conscious and so much like I didn't belong. It went away mostly. I'm still leaving Microsoft and July 6th will still be my last day. And so I feel both like I'm gearing up to cross the finish line and wanting to finish strong. And also like I am new to the team and trying to prove my value, which by the way, your value, my value, it's inherent. It exists because we do. I'm just being real about how I feel.

Marie Groover (12:26.485)

and I'm working on it. I am again, practicing authenticity. I'm relearning how to kindly share and enforce my boundaries. I'm relearning how to be comfortable when I'm not comfortable. And I'll keep you in the loop along the way. In the meantime, have you signed up for my four week live course series yet? It's called the Quantum Leap.

And it's going down during my last four weeks of Microsoft from June 7th to July 7th, ending on my birthday because I want to go out with a bang and I want to go out with you. For more info, check the description and the episode bio and reach out with questions. We'll dive into everything from working a nine to five in integrity to running a side business in integrity and scaling the fuck out of it so that if you so choose, you can walk away from your job too.

And if not, I am celebrating you even harder because we are it all, whatever we want.

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. If this work resonates, please share it with someone who may connect and rate the show. Reach out with questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. And don't forget to register for the Quantum Leap beginning on June 7th. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind.

I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode, right here. I'm honoring you, and with gratitude, good day.

Episode 17. Grief, the Five of Cups, and Making Space for What’s Meant for You

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Episode Description:

What if grief isn’t something to fix, but something to feel? In this short solo episode, Marie Groover (The Corporate Psychic) explores the wisdom of the Five of Cups and how grief—when honored instead of avoided—creates space for joy, opportunity, and what is truly meant for us.

Marie shares her own season of loss and transformation, reminding us that grief is not linear. It comes in waves, taps us on the shoulder at unexpected moments, and holds the power to expand our capacity to receive. This is a grounding, heart-centered invitation to make room for both mourning and possibility.

Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.577)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover from The Corporate Psychic. This episode is about grief and what the Five of Cups can teach us about feeling in order to clear and receive what is meant for us and maybe what is better than. It's a short one, but it's worth the listen. If this episode resonates, sign up for my monthly newsletter and check out my blog. I'll add details in the description.

Marie Groover (00:35.864)

This year has been a massive shedding for me so far. People have died. I'm leaving my job. I'm navigating the unknown in my relationship. I'm navigating the unknown in my mother's health. I have discovered things about the coaching industry that I am ready to leave behind and transform. And life is life, right? So it doesn't stop when we're having a bad day or a bout of sickness or

pipes burst under our homes. And in fact, there has been so much duality, as the growth in my business has finally materialized. And at the same time, I've made and I'm developing such deep and nourishing connections in this space. When I was pulling a card for this month, I had no idea what the card would be. But the last thing that I expected was this one, the five of cups. The five of cups is

beautifully representative of the grief experience. In this card, there are three cups spilling out, upside down and empty. Eyes weep at the lost contents. And yet, there are two cups still standing, still full, still ready to provide. When grief is present and it is ignored, or when the focus is on only what has been lost,

We are incapable to receive what is. What is present? What is willing? What is better than? And in order to make space for what is, in order to be available to what is presenting itself to us, we must mourn. We must grieve. And yet, grief is not linear. If you have experienced it, you know this. Grief comes in waves.

It taps us on the shoulder in the middle of a coffee shop or in a conversation with someone new. It wakes us up in the middle of the night asking to be held. It follows us, grabbing our hand in our most all-filled, pleasure-steeped moments. Grief is always with us, mostly in the background unnoticed, yet it knows how and when to come forward to grab our attention. Grief is not something to avoid, to repress or to lessen.

Marie Groover (03:04.703)

It is to be invited into our home, to share a seat at our table, to offer a cup of tea. When we call grief in, we open ourselves and our lives to a richness in an expanded ability to receive goodness. Grief is healing. It's incredibly healing to feel your feelings without trying to change them, without

trying to understand the root of them without justifying them or explaining them to anyone, including yourself. It is a profound shift to just speak the truth out loud, again, without altering it. To speak what is real, to experience what is real in total acceptance of what is real. This is healing. To cry.

to laugh, to be with what is without knowing what it means or what will come from it. You see, we've been conditioned to take action, to feel or think something, and then to act on it. Even I, as a coach, will often talk about the importance of action in the manifestation of your dreams. And yet, not every thought, not every feeling deserves an active motion following it.

And grief is one of those things. While sometimes beautiful, creative, flowing, impactful action comes from experience grief,

It typically only comes in the full experience of grieving. It's the full experience of grieving that produces any profound artifact. Now, the five of cups is absolutely not an indicator that something bad is going to happen or that there's anything going on around you in this moment that you're being called to grieve. In fact, it's more about the experience of grief and mourning than it is an indication for what is to come or what is around you.

Marie Groover (05:15.437)

The truth is, we all hold pockets of grief in our beings. And when the five of cups comes around, there is a potent invitation to make space at our tables for this grief. It's okay. It's safe to acknowledge where grief is present, where sadness or even despair may be present. And in calling forward our grief, in mourning with it, we make energetic, but sometimes even material space

for receiving the goodness that is knocking on our door, because there is goodness knocking at your door right now. And in order to receive it, we are being called to bow to our grief, to honor it, to thank it for coming, to hear it out, to build a new relationship with it, to radically, to unapologetically open ourselves to it. If you're mourning a missed opportunity, if you feel

that you don't quite have what you need to get where you want to go. If you're spinning your wheels or draining your energy, focusing on what is not present. I invite you today to allow yourself to mourn whatever is not. I invite you to hold space in your heart for whatever is. And I invite you to practice strong energetic boundaries so that you may allow yourself to feel it all. Ultimately,

This is an invitation to lead yourself through whatever is present for you today, to trust yourself that you are guiding yourself, that you are actually moving and moving in the directions that you want to move in by being deep in it. A coach of mine once said that you are in your leadership when you are both feet in on a decision, but actually I say,

that you are in your leadership right now, regardless of if you know or don't know what you're going to do about X or what's coming or where you're headed or how you're feeling. There is wisdom in the in-between. There is wisdom in the morning. There is wisdom in the present. And you don't have to do anything about it except for experience it, feel it, let it.

Marie Groover (07:40.855)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. If this work resonates, please share it with someone who may connect and rate the show. Reach out with questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. And don't forget to sign up for my monthly newsletter. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode.

right here.

Episode 16. Should I Quit My Job? Asking the Bigger Question

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.672)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover from The Corporate Psychic. This episode is a solo cast focusing on when to quit your job, but really on asking better questions than this one. If this episode resonates, I ask that you give it five stars on whatever platform you're streaming and that you share it with someone that may be liberated by listening. Okay, let's get to it.

Marie Groover (00:35.49)

Years ago, I read this book called When to Jump by Michael Lewis. In transparency, I read it because I was trying to figure out how to leave my job. This was before I was really happy in the work that I was doing and before I knew who I really was. I just knew that the work that I was doing wasn't it. And I was desperate to figure out what it was. I was desperate to figure out how I would get to the next thing, what the next thing even was for me and

I didn't know what it was, but I was kind of fixated. I wanted to leave my job. I wondered if I would ever leave my job. I wanted to just quit. And so often we are sold this narrative of you can just quit. You can just quit and you'll figure it out. You can just quit and you'll lean into the work that your heart is calling to you. You can just quit and you'll build that business. You'll make a million dollars. All of your dreams will come true. Just quit your job if you're unhappy. But here's the thing.

I didn't want to quit my six-figure job to have to bartend part-time or walk someone else's dogs or scramble when it came to making my monthly mortgage payment. Because yes, I could totally figure it out for myself and yes, I would totally have my back. But no, I did not want to say goodbye to a pretty freaking good deal to then take the time and try to figure out what the heck I wanted to do with my life. That just didn't feel good to me. At least not at that time. I grew up not wealthy. I lived in a trailer for a hot minute.

And the moment I could get a job in high school, I did so that I could buy the clothes that I wanted to buy, so that I had the freedom of choice that comes with money, so that I didn't feel nervous or uncomfortable walking into a room full of people with stable families who could afford simple luxuries and anything beyond necessities. I went to college. I worked four jobs so that I could pay my rent. I graduated with massive student loans and I got a bomb ass job at a top five tech company.

I'm simplifying my story here and the point is I was not about to throw all of that away because of a feeling that I was having. Y'all, we are greater than our feelings. We are. I didn't want to quit my job and then move to a third world country with a lower cost of living and mask it in. I'm living the life of my dreams when actually I'm compromising on my dreams just in a different way, but I'm in a tropical paradise and it looks really fun and it's cool on Instagram.

Marie Groover (03:03.246)

And I'm not hating on this by the way. It's beautiful. I go to third world countries on every single trip that I take. I'm a surfer. I'm a dirty hippie surfer. I can live on $3 a day eating tacos and drinking beers and literally camping on a beach while surfing until my arms are totally noodles for the rest of my life. And I would die happy. I could do that. And I would love to with enough money in my bank account to comfortably fly home, to see my family, my parents who I love.

who are not going to be around forever, who may or may not need me from time to time. And I'm gonna be real. I want enough money to fly anywhere around the world whenever I want to. I wanna know that when I book an economy plane ticket, I'm doing it because I choose to, not because I can't afford first class. I want full freedom of choice, of time. And I don't wanna compromise in the meantime with anything less than what I want while I'm building my business. I did this heads down dedication to my dreams already.

This is how I got to Microsoft. This is how I got to where I am in my current career here. Not that I'm like running everything by the way. So when I felt like leaving my job, when I felt like it wasn't going to work for me or it wasn't working for me, but I didn't know what could work for me, I was pretty hell bent on figuring out what would work for me while I stayed in my cushy six figure salary. And I read this book, When to Jump by Michael Lewis.

Somehow it truly infused into my being and my philosophy in a way that really served me as I built my own business and as I began to make a plan for that next thing as I begin to step into that next thing in a way that stepping into that next thing felt and feels easy feels expansive feels steady and doesn't feel like fuck it it feels intentional and Intentional is a different feeling than fuck it. I'm gonna do what I want By the way, it's worth mentioning

that I read when to jump probably six, maybe seven years ago, a full five years before I even had this idea for TCP, maybe even more. And so me as a coach, I 100 % think and know and believe that absolutely anything is possible for you. Whatever you want, I believe that if you quit your job tomorrow and really lean into your work, that no matter what happens, you will have your back and you will

Marie Groover (05:25.332)

absolutely make every cent of that million dollars or however much money that you're reaching for that you're dreaming of. I also believe that it will all be in perfectly aligned timing. And I also as a coach and as a spiritual coach, an intuitive coach, a spiritual reader, I believe in manifestation. I believe that we call in the things that we want and desire. I believe that we match the energy of where we want to go.

and that that collapses timelines and brings us to our dream state sooner because we are already a match for the reality that we seek. And I'm a human being. So I also very much believe in the material and real nature of the world that we live in. I believe in tangible felt and seen work. I believe in actions. I believe in strategy and planning. I believe in actually doing the work that we wish to see and experience that will get us to the dream state.

I believe in making and finding the evidence of what we want and need so that we can allow our dreams to become real. I believe in taking aligned action with consistency and dedication as being a major part of our dreams coming to fruition. And I don't believe that things just happen for us out of nowhere overnight. I believe that the majority of things that do come to us, that work for and with us, come as a result of the magic that happens when the real and the material actions

when work and world meet with the energetic frequency that we're holding. And because of that, I will never be one that says, just leave your job. I will always be in your corner to support you however you most need it. And if you quit your job and go all in on you, amazing. And if you don't, it doesn't mean that you aren't going all in on yourself. Not quitting your job is also amazing. I will be here to support you no matter what path you go down.

And there are a hundred thousand paths to choose from. More than that, Whether that's building your business while you're in your nine to five, whether that's figuring out who you are while you're in your nine to five, or whether that's leave your nine to five, move to a cheaper region, rent your house out so that you have some income while you lean into your work, while you explore your being and existence, while you amplify your impact on the world. I'm here for all of it. And I think it's all possible and available to you. And I'm here.

Marie Groover (07:51.584)

as a coach to strategize and figure out what the best variation is for you. Not just how you will get there because the how is actually easy. The how often takes care of itself if we let it. The what is way more important. So what is it exactly that you want? It's bigger than to quit or not to quit. It is. And be really specific with this question. What is the exact

variation of your dream life What do you see yourself doing on a daily basis? Not even work-related. Where are you? What are you eating? How are you feeling? What do you do in your leisure? How much leisure do you have and be honest? Some of you really enjoy working and moving and own that and some of you require more downtime Also, let's be honest about that. Let's be honest about that with ourselves first What are your dreams?

I'm here to encourage you to think bigger and to look bigger than even this. Let go of the job title. Let go of the descriptions of what people do that you know. Any preconceived notions of what work is, let go of it. You don't have to be a coach or a yoga teacher or an online fitness instructor with an app to quit your job and sustain yourself. You don't have to be a healer or a reader or a Reiki practitioner. So many people I talk to are like, ugh.

I know that I'm meant to be a healer, but what does that mean? What do I do? How do I make that real? You don't have to be anything that already exists on the planet right now with a known title. And actually, I repeat, don't look to other people or examples to figure out what you want to do. Just get clear on what you want to do. And by that, I mean the exact variation of the thing you want to be doing. Hold that in your heart above all else and stop focusing on what's possible.

Stop focusing on what's attainable. Focus on what you really want. This goes like beyond, maybe even against the book that I referenced earlier, When to Jump, by the way. But I will stand by it. Stop focusing on what's possible. Stop focusing on what's attainable. Focus on what you really want. Don't worry about the how. So when you ask me, should I quit my job or not?

Marie Groover (10:14.786)

My question back to you is, what do you want? Forget about your job and your career. What do you want to be doing in the day to day of your life? Let's get clear on that and then decide. And if you are, by the way, starting your own business, holding your own business or body of work, namely work that you know you're doing, but don't know what it's called or how to bring it to the world and make money with it, please sign up for the Quantum Leap.

It's a four week series that I'm hosting during my last four weeks at Microsoft, where I'll be sharing with you everything that I have learned and considered as I built my business. The corporate psychic is my business, by the way. Everything that I've learned as I've built this from inception to side hustle to multi six figure year, including sustainability, integrity, and the exit of my own nine to five career, the exit of my life at Microsoft for seven years.

It will be hosted from June 7th to July 7th, my birthday. And all of the recordings and materials will be organized in a course for you that you can keep for the next full year, or you can download all of it and keep it forever. You don't have to know if you're quitting your job or not. Again, that's not the right question, but you may want to get really clear on what it is that you want. And I would love to be there in support and to help.

Marie Groover (11:43.064)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. If this work resonates, please share it with someone who may connect and rate the show. Reach out with questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic. And I would love for you to join our community for courses, containers, discounts, and live events.

The community is called TCP Community and Courses and you can find it at community.thecorppsychic.com. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. We've got some really exciting opportunities and I would love to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode right here.

Episode 15. Debt, Privilege & Conscious Wealth: Building a Human-Centered Business with Vee Weir (@veefrugalfox)

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Description:

In this candid conversation, Marie sits down with Vee Weir—the force behind @VeeFrugalFox and Weir Digital Marketing—to talk about the real work of money, business, and becoming yourself. Vee shares her path from debt to financial freedom, why money is a neutral tool, and how privilege, identity, and policy shape personal finance outcomes. We also get practical: when to leave a 9–5, how to build a purpose-driven brand, what to post first, and the non-negotiables every new founder needs (CPA, separate accounts, consistent content). Expect straight talk on conscious wealth, empathy-based budgeting, building connection online, and showing up as your whole self—without waiting for permission.

Guest: Vee Weir — CEO, Weir Digital Marketing; creator of @VeeFrugalFox; personal finance educatorThemes: debt payoff, entrepreneurship, privilege & money, conscious wealth, identity & faith (Wicca), content strategy, authenticity, safety & masking

Light content note: mentions of divorce, domestic violence, and sexual assault (non-graphic).

Guest Links

• Instagram: @VeeFrugalFox

• Website: veefrugalfox.com

• Agency: Weir Digital Marketing

Key Takeaways

• Money is a tool, not a moral scorecard. It amplifies intention. Aim it at freedom, time, options, contribution.

• Context matters. Personal finance sits inside policy, privilege, identity, and systemic realities—address both the micro and macro.

• Empathy-based budgeting works. Grace, honesty, and intention beat shame and rigidity over the long term.

• Relationships are your moat. Connection > algorithms. Vee’s business was built on years of genuine community.

• Start before you’re ready. “Imperfect action beats perfect inaction.” Publish consistently; refine in public.

• Founder non-negotiables: get a CPA, create separate business accounts, formalize your entity/LLC, and start posting.

1. Mission > me. Your content should answer: What problem do I solve? How do I make life better for my audience?

   Resources mentioned:

   • Empathy-based budgeting (Vee’s framework)

   • Starter founder checklist (CPA, entity, accounts, content plan)

   • Content ideas: 5 posts to publish first (problem → promise, origin story, quick win tutorial, FAQs, client mini-case)

   If you’re starting now:

   1. Write your mission in one sentence (who you serve + the result).

   2. Open separate biz accounts and book a CPA consult.

   3. Publish 3–5 posts this week tied to your mission (teach one tiny win).

Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.95)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover from The Corporate Psychic. This week we have a very special episode and conversation with V. Weir, CEO of Weir Digital Marketing and financial influencer at V. Frugal Fox. It's a vast discussion spanning debt, entrepreneurship, privilege, wealth consciousness, the practice of Wicca.

self-integration among all of the facets within the human experience, and so, so much more. If this episode resonates, I ask that you share with someone who would benefit. And with that, let's get to it.

Marie Groover (00:48.856)

So I know you through a mutual friend slash your cousin. Yes. And we've kind of been on the edge of each other's networks for like a really long time now. Actually, when I was thinking about this, I feel like it's got to be at least 10 years, but I don't know. I've known Sarah for like 15 years. I was going to say it's been like 10 years since we've kind of been orbiting each other. So it's cool because I've been able to witness like some of the awesome stuff that you've done and just like,

from the edge ground up. But that being said, I don't want to make any assumptions. So I'd love for you to share like who you are and what your story is and anything you would like for myself and the world to hear.

Vee Weir:

Okay. It feels weird introducing myself to you, but we're going to go with it. For your listeners. I am the owner and founder of @VeeFrugalFox and I am the CEO of Weir Digital Marketing.

Both those entities are in the personal finance space. @VeeFrugalFox is a influencer account that I run. And then we're digital marketing helps people like @VeeFrugalFox create their content and spread their message of financial literacy. We work with Instagramers, bloggers, vloggers, anybody who has a podcast, I work on five podcasts now. So it's a wide range of mediums that we work on and all the creativity that I could ever want in a job. But I really got into this space in 2016 when I graduated from Carolina. I realized that I couldn't afford my food, my student loan bills, and my medication. And that was a moment that completely changed my life. It was January 4th, 2016, and I was sitting at my kitchen counter, and I realized how screwed I really was.

And financial education had never been taught to me. It was just never something that was brought up in my home growing up. So I really started at zero. I worked my way up to exactly where I am now as a quote unquote money expert, which is grandiose, but I don't know any other way to like say it.

But yeah, I started my debt-free journey after that day and I ended up paying about $50,000 and then I got a divorce, which you saw all of that wonderful part of my life where I was a complete wreck. And then after that, I paid an additional $20,000 with my second husband. And so now I'm debt-free and I'm running my companies.

Marie Groover:

Well, it's funny because the first thing I was thinking as you're talking is I was like, so we should hire you. so I definitely want to talk about that. and just the work that you've done in helping businesses grow and scale. But before we do that, I want to keep continue with just you and your story. So talk to me more about this pivotal moment of really deciding to go in on yourself and this journey to becoming debt free. And then also, something that we've been talking a lot, talking about a lot here at TCP is.

going all in on ourselves and leaving our jobs. And I think when I met you, well, like, I guess I've known you, but like when we spent time together, the first time I can really remember, you were, I think you were working, weren't you? Didn't you have a job and you started this on the side? So tell me what was that story and process like?

Vee Weir:

Well, I've always been in marketing. I started my company with my cousin in 2010. I think we started our first marketing firm.

And then I went to college and that kind of disbanded because I was 19 and had no idea what I was doing. But we disbanded that. But I went to Carolina and I got a degree in communications. And ever since I can remember, I've been in social media. I haven't been in any other industry. It's always been communications and social media. So my entire adult life has been that career.

So no matter what job I've had in marketing, it's always been on social media. And I've always also had something on the side. I'm that person that I can't sit still, partly because I have anxiety and it's just something that I don't do. I'm always doing something always. So even now, like I have V for Fox, weird digital marketing. I have a soap business on the side. also dog sit, I'm sitting in a dog sitter's or one of my client's houses.

So I'm just always constantly going. That's just how my brain works. but yeah, I I've always had something in the side. So when you first met me as an adult, me, I, I did, I was working on social media, doing consultation and stuff like that. So it's always been in the periphery for me, no matter where I've been employed.

Marie Groover:

And so when, when did you decide to take the leap out of working for someone else

Vee Weir:

Um, so I got separated from my first husband in 2017 in August, and then I lost my job after my separation and divorce in January, 2019. And the company that I was working for, which is, was in the toy, gift and game industry. was doing marketing for them. Um, and also being an assistant, it was kind of a, it was a tiny company. So it was basically, I wore every hat that you can, cause that's how it works.

they were downsizing. marketing's first to go, obviously. In any situation, that's usually what it is. So they kicked me to the curb, but before they did, my boss was like, you know, could really do this like on your own. And I was like, hmm. And I sat with that and I was like, you know, that's so privileged for you to say, because like you have this company.

And you have health insurance and you're not the one without a job. You're also a man that's been in your industry for 20 years. So I was a little bitter, but then I sat with it and I started applying to jobs and I applied to hundreds of jobs. And I don't know how, what number application I was on. was just like, fuck this. I can't, I can't do it anymore. I cannot submit my resume and then have to fill out a 50 questionnaire based

on the resume that I just submitted. I just can't do it. So I was like, screw it. I have gone through the worst part of my life thus far. Like I made it through my divorce. Kind of unscathed. mean, there was some mental health stuff there, but I mean, like I was living, I was there, I made it to the other side. I was like, I don't have anything else to lose. Like, why not just do it? Why not take a chance on me? And so that's what I did. I was like, you know, I,

realized that the nine to five world didn't work for me and I realized that I wanted to create my own world because that was the only place I was going to fit in. And so I did and I kind of tumbled into what I tumbled into. that's so okay that's so incredible so much here too I'm like where do we even start?

Marie Groover:

It's funny because it almost feels like you were forced into this, right? Like the universe like pushed you. You're like, all right, I guess I'm going to take the leap. And I love that you took advantage because I feel in so many stories, people take advantage of like the good opportunity, right? Like they're like, this thing happened and I just jumped on it. But you were like, fuck it. I'm in a really low part of my life. It can't possibly get worse. If I lose business, like, okay, that's just another thing on my list and I'll move on from that.

So the first thing that came to me when you said when companies are going under marketing is the first thing to go. Isn't that so counterintuitive though? And I say this from now being a business owner because like 80 % of my time is spent on marketing. I'm like, how can I get someone else to help me with marketing so that I can actually do my job? Because so much of what we do is actually just telling people about what we do. So.

I don't know. That's wild. Is that business still afloat today?

Vee Weir:

The one that used to work for? Yeah. They're still kicking. So, you know, I thought I was going to be in the toy industry for a really long time and I'm so glad I got out of it. I'm yeah, I don't know. I'm just happy that I went out on my own and I'm not working for anybody again. I that experience made me realize that I never wanted to ask permission to live my own life again. Yeah.

man, that's so good. This is something I've been thinking about quite a lot actually, whenever we get into this, into the nine to five groove and I'm like totally not a nine to five hater by the way, I still have mine. But not that I'm gonna be here for very much longer, but I'm still in it. I think there's something that can happen to us so easily when we're working for someone else is this thing that you mentioned of permission, where when we're working for someone else, we...

for someone or something else, like an entity, we almost shift our entire lives to accommodate this thing that we work for. And especially what's crazy is like, I feel like we do this like this and check me here, like gut check me here, but I feel like I see this more. It's like the, the less money that we make almost even the more we're like, let me change my whole life around for this company. That's like not even really taking care of me. And then I feel like the more, comfortable we become.

the more then we start to think about, what is it that I actually want? How can I actually be in this world? Like, how do I want to be in this world? And then the relationship shifts and changes. But like so often we literally like our whole life is shaped around where we work. People move across the country for their jobs. People move like across the town for their jobs so that they can be a mile away instead of 10 miles away, instead of being like, I want to live near the beach because I enjoy the beach. They're like, well, I'll shorten my commute so that I can be at work.

even more in this place that I hate. And it's like this thing where not only do we feel like we're asking for permission from the people who are giving us our paychecks to live the life that we want to live, but then we're also, it's like, we're like bound by societal expectations as well, because we have looked into that.

I think that's why I'm so passionate. Well, that's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about financial education and influence. I mean, the only reason I was able...

to really just say, it was because I had saved a chunk of change in a year. Like I made it my mission to save up a pretty large amount of money for me to be able to take months off and see where I really wanted to land. gave myself by saving money, I gave myself that permission. I gave myself that room to breathe and discover what I really wanted to do. And

Unfortunately, in our capitalist society, money is at the root of everything. And it is at the root of freedom. Unfortunately, money gives you options and it gives you freedom to really prioritize what you want out of your life. And that's why I want more people to have money because it gives more people like if you didn't have debt, if you didn't have the struggle that you're living with day to day with money, what would you do?

Like would your dreams be? Where would you live? And I love talking to people about that. I love talking to people about their wildest dreams because I say, okay, so you want that. So let's figure out a way to get that and what we need to do to get there. Like what's the number that we need for you to explore even the possibility. And yeah, I think that when I had that cushion of money and I could just sit back and not be ruled by somebody else or ruled by

a role or an expectation. And then when I uncoupled myself from the societal expectation of me, that's really when I started to blossom into this role and started to take ownership of making my own destiny. And I think that was really pivotal for me and money was at the root of that. Yeah, that's such a good, it's such a good point too because.

Whenever we are bound by something, I think about even graduating. So when I graduated from my master's degree, I think I graduated with my undergrad with like 30 or $35,000 in student debt. And then I got a master's a couple of years later. And when I finished, was literally, when I started at Microsoft, I remember you get that like six month grace period before you have to pay, right? And so of course I didn't pay anything.

I was like, when, like, why would I do that? you're like, have a lot of reasons why you would, I paid nothing. The interest just like built and I remember checking my account and I was so excited actually to check it because I was making such good money that I was like, I'm going to pay this off. I'm so pumped. Like, let's see how much money I owe. And it was $88,000. And I remember just like instantly this dark cloud came over my head and this thought, like, so joining Microsoft was such a,

It was so not in my plan. It was almost like a side thing that just happened and it was an awesome opportunity and I jumped on it, but like I never thought I would be here. Thankfully I got a job in a really high paying like in the tech industry, right? Cause I think if I had done it literally anything else, I would never, never not be working again. Never. but when I joined, I remember this dark cloud came over me and I suddenly felt like,

Marie Groover (14:48.987)

I cannot leave my job. Like I cannot leave the situation until my student debt is paid off. And then I was like, I'll do it in five years. Like I was doing the calculations of how much money I was making. And I was like, I totally got this. And then I was like putting so much money toward my student loans and nothing changed. Like I remember the first two years I dropped like 13 to 15 K a year. And like my debt was still like 70. I was like, what is happening right now? Is this like terrible cycle? And even now, like I have to be totally honest.

in that part of my being able to leave and walk away from Microsoft now is that I bought a house and sold it and I'm able to pay my debt off. But if I couldn't pay the rest of my student debt off, like I don't know that I would be considering walking away. And so it's this thing of like, especially one, if we're not making a lot of money and we're not in debt, like that's tough because we're in survival mode. But then two, if you're not making a lot of money or making great money, but in a ton of debt, it's like, how do you see past that? And then you feel like,

I can never not do this thing that I'm doing. Even you might even enjoy it, but it's like that feeling of being trapped because you're like, I don't have another option until this is gone. And I think about how many millions of student loan borrowers feel that just millions. And then it goes back to, well, in my opinion, higher education should be free. So, you know, it's also about looking at the systemic issues and

really unpacking like why the system is the way that it is. I just think about if student loans were canceled, can you imagine the injection of money into the economy? And the injection of creativity in entrepreneurship. I hope that I live to see that day where people aren't so burdened by the societal expectation and requirement really.

to get a higher education to simply survive. I really hope that I see that day. Yeah, it is. It's like this vicious cycle too, because I feel like we all think we need to go to college to do the things that we want to do. And it's so funny because now when I'm asked by a younger person, know, hey, what should I do with my life? Not that anyone would or should listen to me by the way, but my advice is always.

Marie Groover (17:15.625)

Do the thing that you love and focus on that. And if that doesn't mean school, then don't go to school, right? Because I think about where I'm at now and I'm like, man, if I would have just started this when I was 18, like I would probably still be in the same place, but I would have just not had that debt. I would have skipped all these things and I would never take back my college experience and my master's degree. Like I learned so much in the past 10 years of my life. And I think had it not

had I not felt so pressured to do that, it would be different. And then the same thing of coming from a family where there was no way my parents could have afforded to help me with college. So like having to take student loans out, having no idea what that even meant for myself. And thank goodness I got a really great job. But even having friends now who, because oftentimes our student loans come from the government.

our payment plans can be so long, right? Like people will pay off their loans for their entire life. And it's this thing of like, just, okay, I'm just going to accept that I have this payment for the rest of my life, which then just makes it get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And then it's this thing of like, I don't even want to look at that because now it's so big. And I guess I'm just going to be paying the very minimum until I die. Right. That's, that's the reality for so many people. And

I was in the same boat with you. my family couldn't afford to send me to school. So I married a guy that I knew for three months and I got military benefits and, that marriage turned into an abusive nightmare. I did it partly because I needed to survive. And that's really, I actually just came out about that probably a month ago about like why I really.

am so passionate about teaching people about these things. And it's because, I never want another woman to be in my situation. Like I shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. But I mean, people will do whatever they have to do to go to college because we are pressured as a society, as a younger generation to do that. And I think to your point, like, you don't have to go to college. Like you can go to trade school and make a hundred thousand dollars a year at 20.

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There are so many, and especially with like social media and living in the digital age, you don't need a degree to earn a living, you know, if that's not what you want. And I will say that my education was an investment and I don't regret that investment. think that the return on that investment for me has been appropriate to my life and what I've made.

And it's given me the experience I've needed to be a business owner and a successful business owner. But it's definitely not something that I would say to a young person, like you must do because there's so many different opportunities now. And even companies like, you know, Google and Microsoft are saying, you know, we want you to get certified in these different things and we'll still consider you. So it's just, it's subjective. And I,

just hate the cycle that we're in. I hate the cycle of debt. my brother actually did the same thing. I think he refinanced or sold something in real estate so that he could become debt-free. Like that's something that people do. That's a quote unquote hack. But yeah, I mean, he was like, was never gonna become.

debt-free without it. And he's like, I was just so tired of paying that student loan and he's 40. Like he's been out of school a long time, you know? So, so yeah, it's, it's not uncommon for me to come across that in my job, people that are older with kids paying off their college still. And it's, I feel like as a society, we should be ashamed. my goodness. Yeah. And I, I can't imagine like being older, having children.

still paying off your student debt and thinking about their education. It's like, can you imagine you're paying your student debt? You don't want to put your child in that debt. And so what do you do? Take on more debt so that you can get your child through school. That's rough. Yeah. I mean, it's generational financial trauma.

Marie Groover (21:53.289)

Okay. So let's talk a little bit about what you did to get out of debt and then how that has transformed over the years because, yeah, I've seen you again from the edge. I've seen you like make this massive shift in transformation just from where you started. And I'm super proud by the way. So honored to know you. even just you're so welcome, but just seeing that growth from like the first, my gosh. Yeah. Post your divorce when you had paid everything off and you're like, all right.

You know, I'm going out into the world to where you are now and just the ways in which you think about money and how that has shifted. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah. Um, when I first started paying off debt, I was using the Dave Ramsey method and, um, back then quote unquote 2016, which is, you know, so far in the past, but so much can change in what is that six years, seven years. In the social media realm that was back then, um, there were only a handful of people.

documenting debt payoff on Instagram when I started. And it's kind of evolved into what it is today, which is a multimillion dollar industry at minimum. But yeah, I started with Dave Ramsey and everybody else did as well because he was the loudest person in the space and the most documented.

And I really went hard on our debt, meaning we sold a lot of things. I worked multiple jobs. My ex-husband worked as much overtime as he could. We budgeted. We did everything by the book and we were able to pay all that money off. We even at one point drained a Roth IRA, which I would never, ever suggest. But I, you know, was, debt was the demon. Debt was the enemy.

the villain and I just wanted to get out from under it. And that was the way that it was positioned to everybody that was following Dave Ramsey. Like debt is the devil. So that's really where it started. And then I realized pretty quickly, like in 2017, when I separated from my ex, that the message no longer was being spoken to me.

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because I wasn't in this traditional married upper middle class situation anymore. I wasn't the demographic that Dave Ramsey preaches to. And I will say preaches because I find him akin to a pastor spreading the good gospel of financial peace. And that's the way that he sees himself.

And I also realized through social events like the murder of George Floyd and COVID and all of these abhorrent things that Dave Ramsey didn't align with my views of the world anymore. And he came from an extreme place of privilege that didn't acknowledge any struggle or anything outside of what his life looked like. And I realized very quickly

that money is involved in all of these things. And we have to think about finances, both in a macro and a micro way. Like you can't just talk about personal finance without talking about politics, without talking about race, without talking about gender, without talking about sexuality, without talking about how capitalism is underneath everything. You cannot separate these things. They are inherently intrinsically linked. And that's the way that money needs to be discussed.

I think that we do a disservice when we don't see the connections of all of it. And yes, it can be overwhelming, but I think that the great thing about my industry in social media and influencers is that we can educate people in a very visual and easy to understand, digestible way so that we can have these conversations without being completely overwhelmed. And I was just finding Dave Ramsey

to be lacking in all of those things. And the space, the debt-free community on Instagram, the personal finance community, industry has really shifted away from that singular, just monochrome voice. And now it's anything that you want it to be. If you are a person of color and you want to only follow people of color that do

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financial education, there are hundreds of thousands of accounts for you to go to. If you are LGBTQ, you can absolutely find people. If you are somebody that wants to be only in real estate or only in the debt-free community or only in the FIRE community, it's really just branched off into this beautiful, colorful tree of anything you want it to be. And I love it. I love the evolution.

And that's really kind of the way my life transformed. I got out of the situation where it was just so like, I felt like I had blinders on and then my life crumbled and I realized, like this is actually really fucked up. And so I changed, I decided to change. And I mean, all through that, I was going through therapy and really discovering who I wanted to be.

that didn't include who I used to be. And so I made the change to be a more empathetic, more holistic person. love this so much and it's so vulnerable. So thank you for that. And by the way, I was getting chills as you were talking about just all of the options that are out there now and how things have changed and how interconnected everything really is. think it's, it's such a beautiful example of, so this happens in spiritual, in the spiritual world, but

I think all over all of the industries, right? Like we have these teachers, these guides, these mentors in our spaces that are the loudest voice in the room or that teach like this is the one way, right? And there's almost always a following toward these people and that's completely good and great. Like we all have our own discernment and can do without what we want, but it's this beautiful knowing that we have.

that can connect to that there are a hundred thousand different paths to whatever it is that we want. And I always like to be wary of and warn people that I work with. Like if I'm not your person, that's completely okay. And I'm okay with that. And I want everyone to know that that's completely fine, right? Like I don't know the way. Just like you're like, even, I love how even earlier you're like, it's grandiose to say that I'm a money expert, which you are by the way, but it's like, it's like.

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there's wisdom in being able to say that only the person in front of us, only the person at hand is the person that knows what's best for them, right? And there again are a hundred thousand different ways to get where you want to go. And I think the best guides and the best teachers are not going to be the ones that say you have to do it this way. And there's like this one path, right? I just feel like it's so, we're all just trying to figure it out. I mean, really, really like,

We're sitting here, two female entrepreneurs with very, very different paths, but we are still trying to, no one has ever figured it out. No one's ever like crossed the finish line of knowledge and wisdom and been like, all right, we're done. Like I don't need to do anything else. And I know everything and I am the expert. You should follow always. I have all the

But that's just not something that happens. And so we're all just trying to figure it out. And I think being vulnerable and honest about that is really what attracts people to quote unquote influencers or, to businesses like the corporate psychic. I really feel like that vulnerability is, has taken the place of the loudest voice in the room. And I, a hundred percent here for it.

my gosh. Yeah. It's like seeing people in their humanness, right? As opposed to whatever else, whatever else that is like authority. don't know. Yeah. I think we all are just tired of the same old bullshit. And especially with the pandemic, I think it really changed the way that we view that view experts and gurus and we're all just like, I just want a human to tell me.

Like it's okay. Yes. I just want a human to tell me that it's okay. Oh yeah. It's like that validation of, um, we're perfect exactly the way we are. Like imperfectly perfect. Right. I was just talking actually to a teacher earlier today about how we're all on the right path. were like, is there a right or wrong? Like there's no right or wrong. Like there's no, there's no right path. We are just, we are right. Like where we are is exactly where we're supposed to be. I don't know. got, it got a little.

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got a little out there. But I mean, it's true. You are, everything that's happened in your life has led you to exactly this conversation that we're having right now. Absolutely. So yeah, I'm very much about that. Woo woo. Way out there stuff. I love it. I love it. love it. I love it. So, um, actually, yeah, let's go into that. So what, what are you, what do you practice? You're

practice Wiccan, yes? Can you tell me about this? What are you? Yeah, what are you? Yeah, I identify as a Wiccan pagan, which is very different in my industry, especially with the Dave Ramsey crew in the beginning, very, very Christian. And I never really subscribed to that religion. I mean, I grew up in the South, so I've been to every kind of denomination, church,

you can imagine, Methodist and Baptist were the two that I am most familiar with, but it's just never been me. And I moved to Colorado. I joke that I moved to Colorado. I burned my bra and I became a Wiccan. That's pretty epic. It's true. So love it. Yeah, I am a practicing Wiccan. Yeah. So tell me, okay, so how did this, I love this, I moved to Colorado, burned my bra, became a Wiccan.

how did you discover this like space and what drew you to it? And what does your practice look like? Yeah. Tell me everything.

trying to think of when exactly I knew that Wiccanism was a thing. I mean, I probably knew about it in high school. My best friend has always been pagan and we never really had a deep conversation about it, but I always knew that she didn't worship like the Christian God. So I guess through books and education and the World Wide Web, I was kind of searching

Marie Groover (33:18.574)

for that void, I'd always felt like there was just this emptiness in me when it came to spirituality. And I really do feel like when I was married to my first husband, it was, you're going to be a Christian. It wasn't like an option not to be. And his family, they were from Texas. So that should tell you everything you need to know about that. So when I divorced, I really did feel like I had like this awakening.

I had this opportunity to really explore who I wanted to build, who I really wanted to be. And when I moved to Colorado, then when I met Joe, my second husband, he has always given me the time, the space and the grace to explore myself and to build whoever I wanted to be. And he's always been like, I love you with no asterisks. whatever.

I decide I want to be and show up to the world. He's going to love me regardless. And that's just a little peek into how much I love him. But I think he, he's been pagan too. I met him and he was very like, pagan. I'm like, okay, cool. Great. Um, you know, I don't have any qualms about that. And so I think through watching him explore his religion and then knowing that my other best friend was pagan, I decided to like take that leap and to see what could.

happened for me if I looked into it. So in 2019, I moved here to Colorado, and I decided to do my year in a day, which you study Wicca for a year and a day before you can officially call yourself a Wiccan. And then you have a self induction ceremony, and then you're officially Wiccan. So I studied it for a year and a day. And I just decided it was, it made sense to me in a way that no other religion did.

So yeah, that's my journey. That's so cool. I love this. I love to, by the way, you're like, this is really out there from the rest of the financial industry, but I think it's amazing. cause one, it's like a Testament of just like the diversity that can exist, right. In any industry. and then two, I love it, of course, because I'm super in the woo woo, but also in like the tech and corporate world, the contrast, I think between.

Marie Groover (35:44.388)

actually what I should say is the contrast in ourselves and all of the different things that we practice and that we dive into and that we study and like all of the different ways that we maybe even identify as humans. Like I love so much that you are a Wiccan and you're like, this is really out there and woo woo for the financial industry and in the financial world.

But to me, that's so amazing. And it's like the perfect example of the exact kind of work that I love to do the most because I feel like oftentimes, and I'm curious about your experience by the way, because I feel like oftentimes when we find something that we really identify with on a soul level or a heart level or in like a belief or faith level, sometimes it feels really conflicting with the path that we're on or with the thing that we do for a living or with the people in our lives.

And so whenever that conflict happens inside of us, there's this moment of, I choose X or do I choose Y? And then there's also this beautiful realization of, I don't have to. And I think you had this really amazing partner that allowed you to explore all of these facets of yourself, knowing that you wouldn't have to choose, your relationship versus your beliefs or your values. But I don't know that everyone is always so...

vocally accepting, let's say that in relationships, as well as if environments around us feel so outwardly accepting, right? I think it's a little bit easier when you work remotely, when you have your own business, when you have a supportive partner, but there's like this conflict that happens when you're in a lot of other spaces. I mean, it happens regardless. So I'm curious, like, did you ever feel that conflict as you started practicing Wicca? And then what did that look like as you integrated?

parts of self, especially because you're like, it's really out there for what I'm doing. Yeah. I definitely felt in the beginning, like I had to mask it. I think masking is a very real thing for many people with religion, sexuality, X, and Z. You you have to feel like you fit a certain demographic to be successful. Especially I feel like as women, we have to act a certain way.

Marie Groover (37:59.244)

in order to climb that ladder. Otherwise we're perceived as a bitch or as a slut in the office. know, I mean, these are very archaic things that have persisted into 2022, unfortunately. So masking is something that I was very well aware of. And when I did come out as Wiccan, it was around the same time as I was starting to be very vocal about my bisexuality too. And I,

I definitely would kind of put some things out there and be like, okay, let's see how my audience reacts. it didn't go poorly. So I was like, all right, well, I'm just gonna kind of show a little bit more of this. And then eventually I just got to a point where I realized that growing up in the South, in my family,

And then being with my ex-husband, I had masked so long and I was never really given the space to show up as me. Like the person I am right now sitting here talking to you is not the V that used to be. mean, and I...

To be very honest, it's caused a lot of problems in my family. I've had a lot of family turmoil because of the things that I believe and who I am. So I'm not immune to the reality of discrimination or just having your family not understand and not accept you. But I think that I have found safe spaces where they've been offered, like with my husband.

with my best friends, with the community that we've built here in Colorado, with my online community. mean, just the other day, I can't remember who I was talking to, but they were like, you I really appreciate that you say exactly what you feel and you show up exactly who you are, no matter how many feathers it ruffles. And I was like, yeah, that's how I feel because the people who resonate with me, resonate with me. I'm not talking to people who don't. So if you want to unfollow me because I worship the God and goddess,

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go for it. Like I wasn't talking to you. If you want to unfollow me because I believe black lives matter. Love is love. Science is real. You go for it. Unfollow me. I am not the follower. I am not the influencer for you. I am not account for you and I wish you well, like peace. So I think that really it's in

finding community, at least it has been for me. You I'm asked for so long and then I was like, you know what, I'm tired of wearing this all the time. I just want to be who I am. I just want to be V. And I really took it off and I realized like the people who loved me and were there for me really dug in their heels and were like, we're not going anywhere. And I think that's the advice I have for anybody that doesn't have the privilege of working from home or hiding quote unquote from

other people that may not agree with them is like find the people that do and hold onto those people. that's such good advice. And I love too, what you're saying about just your online presence as well. Like everybody's opting in, right? Anybody who's following you is opting in. And so it's not your responsibility how they take your content. It's responsibility to show up as yourself. And that's like your responsibility to yourself. It's to no one else.

I love this advice too. was literally just about to ask you for anybody who's exploring themselves and exploring new practices and diving into new spaces, maybe in the spiritual world or a new religions or new belief systems. yeah. How, how would you recommend that they find their people? How do you find your people? I usually recommend if you're like really starting new, going to the library or

Barnes and Noble or wherever you get your books and reading a few things. I know in Wicca, they always say, if you don't like reading, this is not the religion for you. Because you're always learning about different things or different philosophies or a different sect of Wiccanism, different witch types. There's just a plethora of knowledge that is never ending. Like I said, we're never not done figuring it out.

Marie Groover (42:32.927)

But I would say like go to the library and get some books that are kind of top in your religion or the experts and just hop online. Like the greatest thing about living in the era that we do is that you can type in a hashtag on Instagram and something will show up. you know, some of my followers in the beginning

with the debt-free journey, we're in like New Zealand, you know, and I still follow them and they're still a part of my life. And so they might not be in your hometown, but there are people experiencing what you're experiencing. And that's why I love social media. I think nowadays with all of the negativity surrounding social media, we've forgotten the core of it, which is connectivity. And that's why I fell in love with what I do is,

connecting people all over the world with the same mission. And I really like getting choked up because it's just like that. We crave connection. We crave understanding and being told that what we were experiencing is valid. And so if you're exploring anything new, try to connect with people. That's what's gotten me through the worst of times. Yeah, connection. It's so...

It is so crucial. And I think when we're going through those times, it can be so easy to block ourselves off from the world, right? Because we're like, nobody else is going to understand or nobody else can feel the way that I feel. And then connection just literally allows us to open up and reblasm. I love this. And then I want to talk about this too, when it comes to business. So anybody out there who is thinking about starting their own business, how important would you say?

marketing and social media and connection, really connection is truly to building that up. man, you don't even know how important it is. Like I didn't even know because when I started my company, I didn't ever think that like I would be able to leverage the frugal Fox, which was in no way, shape or form, like a brand at the time. Like I was just documenting.

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my budgeting journey and what I liked to do to save money and being frugal. You know, it was just that, but it turned into leveraging these relationships that I had built over. Like the only reason I am remotely successful is because of the relationships I built over a five year period. people that are all across the country that were on the same financial path as me, that were interested in my life,

maybe they had different goals or maybe they had different sects that they were doing like real estate or financial independence, retire early or whatever. But we all kind of came up together and we all cheered each other on and we were all interested and invested in each other. And that is the only way that I have been successful. Almost all of my core clients that I have, I have five or six core clients that sign year long contracts with me.

I have known since 2016. And that's where my business began all the way back there when I, when we're digital marketing wasn't even a thing. So yes, relationships are the core of any good business, I think. And being human centered is at the core of any good business. So take advantage of those relationships, ask questions. The thing that I have found most being an entrepreneur is that

People love helping people. People love being the person that's like, I helped her. Like I remember her when she was at like 5,000 followers and had no money, but like, look at her now. She's a boss ass bitch. And I was there in the beginning and I helped her along. And I'm the same way. If someone comes into my DMs and is like, you know, I'm starting a business. What are your top pieces of advice? I'm like, get a CPA, have separate bank accounts. Like here's all the resources you need. Like, and I'm totally okay with that. Like I...

on a rising tide lifts all ships. And that has been my motto for a very long time. And I feel like that human centered approach is what we all really need, especially right now. relationships and asking for help are, if I didn't focus on those two things, I wouldn't be where I am. I love that so much. A rising tide lifts all ships. That's, I love that.

Marie Groover (47:10.879)

Okay. And also, can you repeat those? said get a CPA, have different bank accounts. Absolutely. The first thing you do logistically is get a CPA because don't fuck with the IRS. They will ruin you. So don't do that. Get a CPA because you probably don't know anything about taxes. don't. Get separate bank accounts. Don't mix your personal finances with your business finances. It's business 101.

register your business for an LLC or whatever corporate, your CPA that you're going to get can help you with that. And start creating content. Cause you can't get viral content if you don't put out content. So start now. my goodness. just saw this past week I was giggling at the, there's like a real audio that's like, you can't have a business.

or if you want to have a business, have to talk about your business. It's like the audio. And I was like, it's so true. It's this thing. I don't know. It's really fascinating. Cause I don't think this is just business wise. I was thinking about this the other day, oftentimes, and I love so much with the debt free journey, how you think about it in terms of what's your dream life and then where are you today? And like, let's get you there. I love that so much because oftentimes I think that we have these

dreams, these really big, beautiful dreams, and then we do nothing about them, and then just hope that one day they'll fall into our laps. like even I think about somebody one time told me that they wanted to be a public speaker. And so I'm like, okay, awesome. Where are you speaking right now? And they're like, no, and I'm like, well, if you want to be a speaker, you have to speak because because let's say let's say that the moment happens.

where like suddenly you're dropped on stage and you have to sub in for somebody great. And there's like a hundred thousand people in front of you. If you've not done the practice and the work, it's not going to be pretty. It's not going to be a good thing. And it's the same thing with businesses. think people start businesses probably because we have this idea of back in the day, you like open up a storefront and then people come to your store. So they're like, I need to get a website and like have SEO. And then people are going to find me and they'll buy my stuff. And so I have a ton of clients who will literally

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start a business and they'll do everything that they need to do, but then they won't share anything about their business because they're like, no, I'm waiting for people to come. No, actually, actually. That's the opposite. One of my clients, Jamila Soufrant, she runs the Journey to Launch podcast, an amazing human being. She always says, you you need to prepare for the future that you want today.

You can't be a speaker if you're not putting things in place to become a speaker, if you're not speaking. Like your dreams are an action verb. Like you need to do them now. So, yeah, I mean, if you're not creating content, like it doesn't work like that anymore. You have to put yourself out there. You have to be vulnerable. You have to tell people what you're sharing with the world. That's the way that you're going to be seen. That's the way that you're going to get clients or customers or whatever your end goal is.

you know, if I had waited to share content, I wouldn't be here. So, that's such a great, that's such a great point. And something I think about too, for myself, because I, I remember when I was starting TCP, I actually, I was not planning on sharing any content right away. I was going to wait till my website was developed and then I was going to start sharing. And then I don't know what happened. I just started like sharing a bunch of stuff and then people were like, we like this. And I was like, okay, I'm going to keep sharing stuff. Right.

But I realized that in doing that, cause my website was supposed to be developed in like June or July, but because I'm really picky and we went back and forth a lot, didn't actually finish until November. But because of that, I had, I was able to have this epic launch in November because I didn't wait to start. Right. Like I didn't wait for things to look perfect or be perfect. I was just like, I'm just going to share what's happening and then I hope that things stick. then I fortunately, thank goodness, but like I.

was able to create a bit of a community before the actual launch. So then the launch didn't feel like I opened the storefront and threw a party and no one was there. Like it felt like, oh my God, people are here. So what would you say? One of my favorite quotes is that imperfect action is better than perfect inaction. And it's like, you're never going be perfect. The timing is never going to be right. Like ever. You're never going to be ready. It's like when people are like,

Marie Groover (51:53.811)

What's the best advice for becoming a parent? And, you know, my best friend who is pregnant right now, she was like, you're never ready. You're never ready to be a parent is never the right time. You're never fully prepared. You can get all the books. You can get all the do dads. She's like, nothing can prepare you for when that baby is placed in your hands. And it's the same thing with business. mean, my business is my baby. Nothing could have prepared me for this. nothing. So you have to act on your dreams now.

You have to have imperfect action. that's just, I love when people are like, well, I'm waiting, like waiting for what? Like do it now. my goodness. Yeah. And I think about this thing too of like, occasionally this will pop into my head, but tomorrow is not a guarantee. Like five minutes from now, 20 seconds from now is not a guarantee, right? Like anything can happen at any moment. And so what are we waiting for? What if we die?

You know, what if we die and we've like not even tried the thing that we want? Not that we should do things because we think we're gonna die, but you know. No, but like that is the positive side of YOLO. if I, happened tomorrow and I passed away, like at least I know that I did everything I could to make my dreams come true. And I lived a life that I was proud of and I'm not even 30 yet. And I think that kind of

philosophy really does push me to do things that I'm not prepared for or that are crazy to some people. But I just don't want to live with regrets. I've seen so many people that I know age and regret not doing whatever they wanted to do. And that like, I don't want to be in that position ever. Like I have one life. It's a beautiful life that I've created to work for me, not me work for it.

And I just don't want to ever live with regrets. So that's why I do crazy shit. I love it. I love it. If you're going to regret it, just do it. Just do it. So you don't regret it. I love that. okay. So if there's, so when it comes to putting ourselves out there for the very first time, sharing content for the very first time, allowing ourselves to have imperfect action, what would you say the most important piece of what it is that we share is?

Marie Groover (54:17.807)

And by that, mean like, do people share their offerings? Do they share what they're doing? Do they show what they believe? what should people be sharing? And I say this because I also see this thing that happens. And I'm curious because you're a thousand times more of an expert than I will ever be. Where like some of my clients actually will do this where they just share things about random things, but like maybe don't connect the dots back to what's happening and what they're supposed to be doing.

And so I'm wondering like, is there a best practice? Is there something that you think about? Is there something that you would guide someone to sharing, um, as they get started in there? Yeah, I think you have to have a mission like a V for the Fox. The mission is helping you on your track to financial freedom. So everything, most everything I've gotten to a place where I do have a larger following. So sometimes if I want to post a thirst trap, I but

the majority of your content should relate back to that mission. And it's not all about you. I think that's something that creators and business owners and freelancers and entrepreneurs and all of the people wearing all the hats forget. It's not about you. It's what you can provide them. It's what problem do you solve? How do you make their life easier, better, worth more?

more livable. And so I would, would try to connect that back to your mission. I mean, what sets your soul on fire and what can you offer other people? That's really always been the idea behind my most viral content and all seven years of me creating content.

Um, and why I have clients, it's always been, I provide a service for you so that you can live a better life. And through that, I provide education for other people so that they can win with money and like summit that peak of financial freedom. So that would be my advice is, is show up consistently for the people that need to hear your voice.

Marie Groover (56:40.234)

Again, it's not about you. It's what they need to hear. What can you offer them? What is your voice and your story and your mission? them show up consistently for the people who need you because they do need you. Understand that your market might be saturated, but you're the only one with your voice. If I started my financial journey now, I would look at the field and be like, there are literally a hundred thousand accounts. Like, I don't know, I shouldn't do this, but that's not the case. No one has my voice.

So start now and just be consistent. And what can you offer people and focus on that? So that would be my advice. I love this so much. Like you are making my heart sing right now because one of my offers have to do this shameless plug is literally a three hour session, finding your purpose. It's like, it's like outlining and understanding very clearly what your mission is, like what you are here to do, what your mission is, how you achieve it.

and what you can offer to the world in achievement of it, right? In the fulfillment of it. But I think this is so important. I try to stress this to my people, but I'm not like a business or financial or like social media guru in any way, or form, but it's something that has, I would say too, has been the root of any of the success that I've had has been connecting myself to my mission, my purpose, why I'm here, which is always so much greater.

than who we are. And so I loved so much that you said, even in sharing our content, it's not all about you, right? Like, and I think people get this, like people get confused with this because we see influencers out there who are sharing so much of their life and what they're doing. But ultimately, like when we follow people, it's like, of course we want to know like how people live and what's going on, right? But typically we follow people because we're getting something, right? Like, what is it that we're getting? What is it that we're looking for?

I love that it's like, is it that you're giving? What are you contributing? What are you contributing to your movement, to your mission? How are you calling your people in? Yeah. People have asked me like, how do you manage being so vulnerable and wide open? it really, people come into my DMs and like, really seemed like you're exactly what you portray online. Like it seems like you're really just telling people everything.

Marie Groover (59:04.664)

I'm like, yeah, you could probably ask me what sex position I like. And I would answer like, but the reason I am like that is because I masked for so long and because I was just, felt suffocated and I felt like I wasn't able to use my voice. And so I got out of that and I don't share all of my mental health struggles for me. I don't share my Wiccan journey for me.

I don't share my sexual assault or my abuse or any of my bad shit for me. I share it because I get messages every week saying, because of you, I decided to leave my abusive partner. Because of you, I decided to open a Roth IRA and invest in my future. Because of you, I completed my debt-free journey and I'm moving on to the next stage of financial independence. Because of you, I went to therapy and I sought help instead of killing myself.

Like that is what I do it for. It has nothing to do with me. And I just, I know that not everybody can be as out loud as me, which is why I scream louder because there are women that are in domestic violence situations that can't be open about it. There are people that can't be open about their bisexuality. There are people that can't do what I do. And so I think people sometimes think that influencers and me, V.Fruitt-Gilfax,

is attention seeking or are attention seeking or they're very narcissistic or full of themselves. And I just want to say like, anything I share online isn't for the benefit of myself. It's for the benefit of the Fox den, for the benefit of people that can't speak or need to hear what I'm having to say. And that really is the reason that's my mission is to help you. And I feel like more companies, more people need to have that soul.

So if you take away anything from this podcast episode, it's that you need to inject soul into whatever you're doing. Because the success will follow. Yeah. my goodness. You're like.

Marie Groover (01:01:19.978)

First of all, I almost started crying. was like fighting back tears. Secondly, TCP's mission is to awaken the soul in business, by the way. So I love, love that. Another shameless plug. But also, yeah, it's so, my goodness. I'm just so proud and like honored to hear you share this because it is, it's so important. And the thing that I see too with people is we all have so much to say and to share.

And oftentimes because of conditioning, course, we keep ourselves really small and quiet and we forget that when we share it, really isn't about us, right? Because you being vulnerable does nothing for you, actually. It does nothing for you other than like put you in situations that could maybe feel even scary or get like super trolled. But like it does everything for the person who's able to hear and listen to you. And I love that you said too,

even if you were to start all over again right now today, you would still start because there's no one else on the planet that is you and that has your voice. And I think this is true of everyone and anyone who's listening, like we all have something to say and it needs to be said, not for us, like not even for our own healing, but for the healing of the world, for the person that's gonna listen and connect to it and like change their life because of it, right?

which we'll never know. Like that's the beautiful thing, especially with your work. You have, I think like 20,000 followers. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, like people are, and it's like, think about that amount of people and then the people beyond even that amount of people that your work touches. And then the people beyond that, it's like generations beyond what you'll ever be able to see. So it's like, you're planting all of these seeds into the world and you will never even know the impact that you bring, right? Like,

For every person that DMS you, there's probably 20 or 50 people who are impacted just as deeply who will never say anything. So I just think it's so beautiful and such a important Testament as to why we have to speak our truth and share our stories. Yeah. I I spent years not do not being able to do it fully. And so now I just want to encourage everybody to take advantage if they can. I love it.

Marie Groover (01:03:44.07)

thank you so much. Okay, hold on. What else? I know we're over our time. Okay, so I have, I have two questions. I was gonna ask you if spirituality has a place in finance, but you're like, totally making a place for it. So I think that's really great. Conscious wealth, what does conscious wealth mean to you? goodness. That's a really good question. I think really consciousness and being intentional is

one and the same. think that you need to be intentional about why you're creating wealth and not just focus on the wealth. I think I fell down. It's a slippery slope, especially when you're starting and you become as obsessed with money as I was. It's really easy to just focus on the numbers, focus on the data, the spreadsheets, the stock market, whatever you're into. It's so easy to just be like,

I need to hit this number and this number and my net worth needs to be that number. And it's like, it's not about the wealth and it never ever will be. And if it is for you, you're going to have a very miserable existence. It's about freedom. It's about time. It's about options. It's about love and opportunity and happiness. When they say wealth can't buy happiness, they're full of shit. It's true.

because your intention behind your wealth building is what matters. And if happiness is that, then money can buy happiness. You need to be intentional with your wealth and not just save or invest or spend just to do those things. They need to align with your mission, your higher purpose and what you really want your dreams to be. So that's conscious wealth building. That's the...

basis behind empathy-based budgeting as well, which is something that I practice and something that I try to teach others is you need to give yourself grace. You need to understand that you're gonna make money mistakes. You're gonna need to understand that there is intrinsic shame behind money and how you grew up in financial trauma and that everybody has a different story with money, but we can all come together and create a new narrative for ourselves with new intention and new consciousness. So.

Marie Groover (01:06:02.318)

That is, that's what I would say that is. that is so beautiful. It's, it's such a, yeah, I love this so much. I have a coach that actually says, like money is not good or bad. It's a neutral amplifier. Right? So exactly what you're saying, it's like the intention that's behind the money is what matters. It's not the money itself. And you're so right. It is this slippery slope. Cause I think once we start to really focus it on the numbers.

Just like in the corporate world, by the way, we can get so caught up in the numbers. Like it's just like, what are the numbers? What are the numbers? What are the numbers? Let's like get them as high as we possibly can. But it's like at what cost, right? Like if we, if we started this journey for freedom, how free are we really, if we're tied to the spreadsheet, like 24 hours a day, maybe that's not so free, right? I have a saying, so many sayings in this podcast. like it. It's kind of intense, but.

A hammer can be used to build things or bludgeon things. money is the same way. Money can be used to start a war or to build homes for the houseless. It's the same thing. So you have to be aware of your intention behind how you use that tool. That's all it is. It's money and debt are morally neutral. It's about what you choose to do with it. Okay. So let's say,

Someone is out there. Multiple people are out there. I already know that this is going to be the case who are, who really want to build more wealth, to have more freedom, potentially to start their own business, to live life on their own terms. What would you suggest or where would you suggest they start? Well, I would say, hello people. it's nice to meet you. You should go to my page, Instagram at V V E E frugal Fox. I talk about.

all the things that we talked about today. And I also talk about actionable wealth building tips, debt payoff tips, investing, saving. I would say if you're really serious about buying back your freedom, you're gonna have to increase your income. You're gonna have to spend less. You're gonna have to budget. Sorry, it's the B word. I know everybody. If you wanna call it a spending plan, go for it. It doesn't matter.

Marie Groover (01:08:24.467)

but you're gonna have to take responsibility and ownership of your money and really feel that power that it can provide you. And over on my Instagram page, on my blog, Vfrugalfox.com, I have multiple resources for you to start learning how to do that and start learning how to use money the way that you wanna use it with the intentions that you wanna use it for. Thank you so much.

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. If this work resonates, please share it with someone who may connect and rate the show. Reach out with any questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic. And I would love for you to join our community for courses, containers,

discounts and live events. Our next masterclass is on April 12th and it's titled Spiritual Excellence in Business. The community is called TCP Community and Courses and you can find it at community.thecorppsychic.com. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. We've got some really exciting opportunities and I would love to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode right here.

I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day

Episode 14. Why Running a Business is the Ultimate Spiritual Awakening (and Leadership Training Ground)

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.705)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover of The Corporate Psychic. We are back to a solo cast this week and it's a good one. Today I'm discussing the awakening that inevitably comes when you run a business or step into any form of true leadership.

Running a business is a spiritual awakening. I've been saying this for a while now, and the more TCP grows and expands, the more I feel the truth in this. But what is a spiritual awakening? I wanna normalize this phrase and make this terminology more accessible for everyone because whether you are spiritual or not, I can promise you that you've gone through some sort of awakening in your life.

some sort of revelatory moments or phases, existential crisis moments, those are similar if not related, if not rooted in the same. And I wanna be able to use this phrase in a way that is not intimidating or a put off for the quote, non-spiritual, non-religious, non-woo-woo, or even like atheistic or agnostic human. And especially for the pessimist, or shall I say the realist.

A spiritual awakening, if we Google it, of course we have to Google it so as not to completely rewrite the foundation of the phrase, a spiritual awakening is according to your dictionary.com, a realization or inspiration about the connection with an entity or entities beyond the immediate and physical world of God or other intangible sacred spirit. Okay, yes. And it's a phrase that is thrown around quite a lot. And I don't think that

Everyone who uses it literally means that they have met or connected with God. I know that when I'm talking about a spiritual awakening, I'm probably not talking about that either. According to MindBodyGreen, spiritual awakening is also known as enlightenment, nirvana, bliss. But that a spiritual awakening begins the moment a person can step back and awake to their life with a new sense of being in this world. And that is what I want to capture and identify.

Marie Groover (02:26.655)

as what I refer to when I say spiritual awakening, because perhaps the end result is a meeting with spirit or enlightenment itself. I'm not here to convince you of one thing or another, though if you listen to this podcast, you do already know that I believe in awakening the soul of business, but that's neither here nor there. What I am here to talk about today are those beginning moments, the stepping back and awakening or seeing life with a sense of being in this world.

or with a new sense of being in this world because I very much believe that becoming an entrepreneur or running a business or building a business among so many other things is stepping back and awakening to a new sense of being in this world, particularly of being in leadership in this world and leading even more so than building a business requires awakening.

A little over a year ago, I was going through a personal and deep spiritual awakening myself in the literal sense. In truth, it was this awakening or the realizations and epiphany moments that came from it that ultimately became the roots for my business, the corporate psychic. And then as I started TCP, it felt in truth, like week after week, I was awakening all over again.

It was like awakening after awakening after awakening. And what do I mean by this? I mean, it was massive learning and realization and growth followed by massive learning and realization and growth. And I mean, everything felt like a mountain to climb. Everything felt like I was stepping back and seeing things brand new all over again. Everything felt like it was taking me back to myself or showing me something that I hadn't seen before.

and shifting my way of being into the world. My experience in running business has always been at scale because the majority of my experience is based in Microsoft land, where as a business program manager, I see and work in large budgets with hundreds or even thousands of people factored in and many, many moving parts. My role in much of this work has almost always been relatively high level.

Marie Groover (04:49.943)

directing or program managing or orchestrating other people to be in the nitty gritty. Not that I have not been directly in the nitty gritty myself. It's a beautiful thing because when you work in a company, you have a big support system for learning even the basics of your job, right? It's not like you get a job at a company and all of a sudden you're the CEO. Typically you start out with something that either you have experience in or can be trained on and have a lot of support in learning.

and being trained in that thing. You're usually not alone is my point. And even if your training isn't great, you still have it and you still have people you can call on when you have questions or things don't add up or when you need help or support. There are teams and experts and leaders who you can look to to know what to do, to know how to be, to know what's appropriate or not. And even if you don't agree with all of it.

Even if you don't want to fall in line with all of it, you have it. And this is something that non-entrepreneurs take for granted, by the way. When you start a business, on the other hand, every single thing that you do comes back down to you, to what you want, to what you think is appropriate, to what works best for you, to optimizing your own preferences and ways of being and working, to answer all of your questions.

or to pay people to answer them, to support you, to consult with you or to coach you. And even then, it's still all up to you. You are always the one driving and no one can climb your mountain for you. So there's no faking it or avoiding it in your own business. Let me tell you about a time that I literally climbed a mountain. I'm not a mountain climber, but I used to dabble.

And around six years ago, I went to Chile and I climbed this mountain. I think it's called Saratoga. It's actually known as a hill there, being that it's a small guy at 18,500 feet above sea level. For reference, it's taller than any mountain in the lower 50, the lower 50 states of the U.S. And at 18,000 feet, the saturation of oxygen in the air drops down to 80%. And oh yeah.

Marie Groover (07:14.561)

I didn't really train for this. I just kind of went and the opportunity arose to climb. And so naturally I said yes, which is how I feel about starting my business by the way, very similar circumstances. When we started rising on this mountain, we were only walking for the majority of this climb, but my relationship with my body, with what I thought I knew, with how I was experiencing reality, all shifted and everything slowed.

things that would normally be easy became technical and complex. At some point, I had to literally convince my legs to take one step by one step because I felt like I was dreaming. And by that I mean, in my brain, I literally would say to myself, okay, Marie, right leg, just one step, you can do it for every single step. The smallest actions like walking took the most amount of effort.

and mindset and compassion and grace and grit. When we got to the top, I was relieved. I was proud. I was exhausted and energized, fulfilled. I was scared to go down and so much more. I'm sharing this because this is how I feel on a weekly basis in running my own business. I feel relieved and proud and exhausted and energized and fulfilled and scared, scared as fuck.

and excited and exhilarated and

Like I have all the skills and don't have all the skills at the same time. Like I'm moving at a thousand miles per hour without moving at all. Getting lost in the overwhelm and then bringing myself back to taking only the one step right in front of me. In my business, everything is a trigger. Everything is an opportunity to grow, force to learning or discomfort. And there is no one else who can do it for me. I mean,

Marie Groover (09:17.217)

Sure, there are lots of people who can do a lot of things for me. Donning Digital designed my branding and built my website, which I directed and am so grateful for them, by the way. My website would have never launched if I had done it by myself. Kate manages most all of my calendar now, client scheduling, process, policy billing, reporting, financials, project management, programmatic scheduling, probably more than that. And yet I'm still the director.

Jess manages all of my media, graphics, design, any extension on brand, video footage, podcast edits, teasers, media packets, newsletters and comms. Probably more than that as well. But I still write all of the copy. I still speak and record for every podcast. I'm still the decision maker and ultimately the bottleneck when we are in the work together. And Tegan.

Tegan manages energetic balances and client healing plus team healing plus my healing to ensure that we are all supported and growing and safe and at ease. And yet my healing is still my healing. My client work is still my client work. My team is still my responsibility to hold not necessarily in their healing per se, but also in their healing. I'm here to make sure that they feel supported, that they feel like they can grow, that they feel safe.

to be, to express, to do their work that they feel at ease. That's important to me. And no matter how much I outsource, I am not removed by choice. I am present. I am holding it all, even when there are others to support me. And actually, the more I outsource, the more I'm responsible to heal in myself and to hold because there are now more people who rely on me, not even just to get paid, but to do their jobs.

but to have the info they need, the support they need, probably most importantly, the clarity that they need. What's my point in all of this? It's not at all that running a business is a lot of work because you really can do it however you want to. And it can truly be as fun or as challenging or as freeing or as difficult or shallow or as deep or as intense or not as intense as you want it to be. My point is that when you run a business,

Marie Groover (11:42.367)

It's yours, even co-creating with the soul of it, even co-creating with other individuals and team members. You see things of yourself, especially when co-creating actually. You expose things of yourself. You become aware of so many things of and within yourself. And if you want to be successful, if you want your business to succeed, if you want your business to grow, if you want to grow and expand,

You have to do something with what you see and with what you find. There is no brushing yourself under the rug anymore. Now, everything you do impacts your business and its growth. When you rise in your relationships, your business will rise. When you rise in your physical health, your business will also rise. When you rise in your presence, in your wholeness, in your authenticity at home, at work, with clients, with family,

your business will rise. When you grow, your work will grow. And I don't care what kind of work you do, you'll do a better job at it. How we do one thing is how we do all things. And when you start a business, you're putting it all out there. And now the world, the whole world is able to see how you do your one thing. And no one else can climb the mountain for you. No one else can do your thing for you because

It's only yours to climb and do. Working at Microsoft, I've had access to so many personal development trainings and tools and resources and I utilized every single one of them. I've always been one who wants to understand how I operate so that I can operate better. And by better, I mean more productively, more gracefully, more kindly and compassionately and empathically and lovingly and more me.

more authentically in a way that causes the least amount of harm, but provides the most amount of impact. I used to think that personal development was how Microsoft kept people like me happy, but I've come to realize that personal development is a requirement in business. And when you work for someone else, you can bypass it to an extent. You can avoid it to an extent. You can say, I don't need that. I need to be in my job and in my work. But when you're in charge,

Marie Groover (14:09.121)

You really can't anymore. Running a business is a spiritual awakening because it has to be. And how fucking beautiful is that? How amazing is it that by building a business, whether you do it for yourself or someone else, by the way, you get to grow and expand and relate and connect with the world and with other people in a whole new way. Which by the way, many of you now know

that I am leaving my role at Microsoft and stepping fully into my business, the corporate psychic. I will come back to this as an episode in its own, on its own, of its own. But in the meantime, I do want to invite you into my latest offering. My last day at Microsoft will be July 6th. It's also my seven year anniversary and it's the day before my birthday. None of this matters by the way, I just really love this date, how everything fell into place.

But my last four weeks at Microsoft will be my last four weeks with the corporate psychic as my side hustle. And because of this, it feels like such a special time, magical time for me. I want you to join me on a four week series called the Quantum Leap. It's inspired by my own quantum leap with TCP, of course, but it's so much more than that. The tagline is side hustle to profitable, soul aligned, sustainable.

in life giving business and I so mean that. In this four weeks we'll cover topics like, well like this one in the podcast today and how to navigate the spiritual awakening of yourself within your business but also things like picking the thing and starting your business. We'll talk about working for yourself and juggling your nine to five as well as the rest of your life. We'll talk about talking to,

and co-creating with your idea, your business, your team, your projects, your offerings, your products. We'll talk about holding integrity in all aspects of your work, in all forms of your life, which when you're doing and holding so much can be really hard and it can be so easy to cut corners. We'll talk about an ethical, soul-aligned business from start to scale and how to get out of the hustle. We'll talk about business best practices, so,

Marie Groover (16:33.274)

Actual tangible things like bank accounts, backends, taxes, process, policy, etc, etc, etc. All things that I am not an expert in by the way, but that I would love to share my own experience in because no one shared that with me and I think it would have helped a lot. We'll talk about money, like lots of money. We'll talk about a lot of money things, money related things.

Yeah, money is like one of my favorite things to talk about, especially in business, especially in spiritual business, because it feels so taboo. But it's so important to talk about, again, how we do one thing is how we do all things. And our relationship with money is the same. We'll talk about outsourcing and scaling through hiring, through distributing resources, and also creative focus. With that, we'll talk about staying in your zone of genius and letting go of perfection.

If you so choose, we'll dive deep as well into planning and executing your exit from the nine to five. And so much more, by the way, I will be sharing everything that has developed me from my own experience and also from the experience and wisdom that so many leaders, teachers, coaches, mentors, colleagues, and friends have so graciously shared with me. So from now until the end of March, the early bird investment

is a no-brainer investment of $444. I mean, everything you need to know to start, run, optimize, and scale your side hustle into a full-time business. I would have paid that and so much more, by the way. On April 1, the investment goes up to $555 for the four-week series, and in May, it will be the full rate of $775. The series runs from June 7th to July 7th.

And if you email hello at thecorppsychic.com to register and put quantum leap in the subject line, we will knock 25 % off your registration, regardless of when you register to say thank you for listening to this podcast. And thank you so much for supporting the growth and expansion of TCP. Register, do it. You will not regret it. And if you can't make it to any of the live sessions, everything will be recorded.

Marie Groover (18:52.058)

and accessible to you from session recordings to actual materials and slides and things like that in a course-like container for one full year. So seriously, if you feel even an inkling of desire or excitement, just sign up. I promise you won't regret it. The moment you step back and realize a new way of being in the world, it's not only a moment of awakening, awakening to yourself, to your power, to your possibilities.

but it's an opportunity to grow and step into your leadership and step into your highest level vision, your highest self, that leadership. How are you doing that today? And how can I support you in doing that today?

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom, rate the show, reach out with questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic and I would love for you to join our community for courses, containers, discounts, and live events. It's called TCP Community and Courses.

and can find it at community.thecorppsychic.com. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. I would love to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode right here. I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day.

Episode 13. From Cirque du Soleil to Cybersecurity to Startup CEO with Maika Isogawa of Webacy & Forbes 30 under 30

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie (00:04.174)

Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9 to 5 with your host, myself, Marie Groover of The Corporate Psychic. There are big things to talk about this week and I am so excited to talk about them with a dear friend, former colleague and mentee at Microsoft, Maika Isogawa.

Marie (00:27.096)

Maika is a former professional acrobat and performer for the Cirque du Soleil brand of shows. She is also a Stanford alum with a special concentration in symbolic systems, a program which combines the study of human computer interaction, software engineering, linguistics, philosophy, and more. Maika was most recently a cybersecurity engineer for Microsoft, and she has since founded Webacy, a platform for securing digital assets for the unexpected. Maika and Webacy have

been recently recognized as a member of the Forbes 30 under 30 list. Wow. Today we are talking about it all. Starting with Maika's story, diving into our experiences at Microsoft and beyond our experiences as entrepreneurs, when to leave the nine to five and so, so, so much more.

A good place to start, maybe from the beginning? How does that sound? Okay. It feels so weird talking about yourself, but I guess that's what you do. I was born in a suburb of Tokyo. It was called Musashikogane. It's about 40 minutes by train from Shinjuku Station, which is one of the busiest train stations in Tokyo.

Yeah, let's start from the beginning.

Maika (01:41.454)

And I grew up there until I was around four, four and five, and I was born to a Japanese father and an American mother. So that's actually quite rare. I think a lot of the times the mother is of Asian descent and the father is white for cultural reasons. But mine was flipped. And then I ended up coming to Minnesota around that young age for my father's job. And then I grew up going back and forth between Minnesota, very like...

white, nice, Minnesota nice is a phrase that is very true, coal and Japan. And so every summer I'd go back and go to school for the months that America had the summer break. And so I had a very cross-cultural education. And then around 10 or 11, I started getting more into like my hobbies in America. And so it was a little bit harder to get to Japan, plus like plane ticket prices were getting more expensive and stuff. So I stopped going so frequently, but maybe like once a year. And then in Minnesota, I kind of developed

really good solid friend group at the hobby that I ended up choosing long term. So that was circus arts. So I was starting to commit to going to this place called Circus Juventus. And it was a youth training school for circus arts. It's pretty cool. Like for any kid who's a little hyperactive and doesn't want to do traditional sports like soccer, like swimming is the place to go because you can just it's free reign for kids and they teach you all kinds of safety. You feel a lot of agency from a young age and

It's everything from like acrobatics to dance to theater and you make the closest friends and huge part of my life, but I started going there. And then briefly, I'll talk about high school, but I was always really into academics, kind of a nerd. I went to a music conservatory for high school and then I ended up transferring so I could go to spend some time at the University of Minnesota during my last two years of high school. That aside, I graduated.

I ended up going to Stanford in 2014 and then quickly time off so I had that opportunity to go work for a company called Spiegelworld for a called Absinthe and this is a circus show. Spiegelworld is a very well renowned company around the world.

Marie (03:50.35)

I've seen the show, the Absinthe show. That's so cool. I had no idea. Yeah, this is, yeah, that's amazing. I did. It was amazing. It's so raunchy. It's amazing. So what's really funny actually, like full circle tie back to Microsoft. My old team, we all went to the show together. During the week of like Microsoft ready or something. I think it was ready.

Do you like it?

It's raunchy.

Marie (04:18.541)

And we, like, it was a small team. was like Ryan. It was Ryan, my partner on the team. was his idea to do it. And he just like roped our manager in. And so she bought us all tickets and it was so good. Cause Ryden and I sat next to each other and my manager, and then a woman who worked with us, who actually worked with my manager previously, but from the UK was like over down the way with our manager. And Ryden and I were just giggling the whole time. We were actually like front, like front and center of the show. And we were like, Oh my God, we're like our managers.

Five feet, five feet away from us. this show, but it was so cool. was like such a fun. Yeah. I loved it. What? Yeah.

I like it.

So yeah, anytime you want to break the ice with your boss, take them to Absinthe in Las Vegas. It's still running. It's still one of the best shows on the strip. There's stripping and there's acrobatics and really hot bodies flying around. So go see it.

I highly recommend.

Maika (05:16.258)

But yeah, so was working for Absinthe in Australia. And then sometimes in these different tours that you go on globally, you'll cross over with other shows. And so that's when I first met Totem by Cirque du Soleil. And I got to know some of the cast, the artistic director. And then it just so happened that they were going to Japan next. They were looking for a female aerialist with a certain skill set, a certain look. And

they were going at a certain time of the year where my contract happened to be ending. And so it was kind of like star aligning moment. When I look back, I'm like, there's no way that all of that could have just happened randomly. So I feel very lucky. And I ended up moving to Totem for Cirque du Soleil. So that was another journey. A huge growing period for me. was 18.

moved to Montreal and trained in the middle of winter. That was a really rough time because it was really cold in Montreal. I didn't know anybody. It was really hard training. It every day, multiple hours a day, Monday through Friday. And then during the weekends, I didn't know anyone. sometimes trying to check out, but the snow was so bad that nothing was really running that much. And then everyone speaks French. And so I didn't speak French at the time. But I digress. So then they sent me to the tour. I toured.

the Japan tour, which is five different cities. did Russia. I did parts of Europe. And then I ended up leaving because after two years, that's when Stanford, that's the limit to Stanford's leave of absence. But you have to reapply. So I went back to school and then I graduated. I had some internships here and there, but I graduated and went straight to Microsoft. So that is the Microsoft store.

That is amazing. wait, I want to go back to like training. What was training like? I know you said it was like multiple hours a day, really difficult. Like what did you guys do? Yeah. I'm always really curious. Cause I feel like it's gotta be just like physically, emotionally, mentally exhausting. Yeah.

Maika (07:12.514)

Yeah, I think I was definitely an oddball when it came to joining Cirque du Soleil because most people have some sort of professional background. Like some of them are Olympians. Some of them have gone to Circus College and have done this through high school, through college, or they came from traditionally circus families. And so they were kind of from a young age, like built with these skills already, or it was as a part of their discipline already. And so for me, I was kind of at a major disadvantage because this was a hobby. was

I was not a traditional circus acrobat at all. So there's a long way for me to go. And I lacked a lot of the strength and skills and techniques that I needed for the role. And luckily Cirque du Soleil's training and coaching team is absolutely excellent, but it was a lot of work. Like there are definitely days when I would come home and just cry in my room alone. Training, was a quote unquote soloist. The act I performed was actually with three people, but

that it was just act alone for myself and it was the aerial range. So pretty rough for an aerialist, but I remember some days that my hands would be torn, like my whole palm would be torn and I have marks from my forearms of like the safety like mechanism just like on my arms ripping them up. So there would be days where I couldn't really train much without taping the entire hand and doing that. So that was kind of brutal. But I still look back on it very fondly because it was such a growth.

I think some of you do that. It's it's fun or something like fun. That's like really dangerous or unsafe or terrible, but you like that. It was a great time.

my gosh, it's so true. think, what's funny is like even, I look back even at my time in Microsoft, like the worst two years of my life at Microsoft, I still look back on them I'm like, yeah, I'm really glad actually that I went through that, right? Like I'm really glad I experienced that. But like when you're in the moment of it, you're like, what's like, what is happening?

Maika (09:03.138)

Yeah, that's something in the human psyche about the ability to just pretend like it was fine.

I know it's like you look back at it and you're so proud to like even hearing you speak. I'm like, I'm so proud of you for putting in on that all that work. And then it's just so I think what's so amazing is like you're like, yeah, it was a hobby for me. I didn't have this like really strong skill set or training in the background, but like you were still there, which is so cool. And it's like, I don't know. It's just amazing how possible it was for you how possible you made it. And like, yeah, it's a dedication that goes behind that. It's really beautiful.

Despite the pain.

the pain, pain makes us stronger.

Totally. That's like such an well it might not be like totally an Asian thing but I totally think it's an Asian thing. Like I feel like I feel that same way like for my mom. Just like, just push through it, just push through it. be fine, you're gonna be better for it.

Maika (09:57.262)

100 % yes.

that's amazing. Okay. So then when you join Microsoft, how old are you when you joined Microsoft?

I was trying to think 22. Yeah, 22.

Yeah. Epic. And you started as an engineer. Yeah. What was your, what was your technology? I feel like I should know this by the way.

Yes.

Maika (10:23.522)

We really had talked about work that much when we were talking. I was in a cybersecurity group.

Yes, I did know that. That's amazing. like, how was your start at Microsoft? And like, when did you start to know that it wasn't going to be your forever home?

Yeah, I think maybe Microsoft got unlucky in the sense that, well, the world got unlucky because COVID happened. And that's when I graduated and that's when I joined for the first time. And I was part of this thing called the Aspire program, which is the college program for new hires. So this was supposed to be kind of like a second college, right? It was supposed to be that you all move to the same city. You're all living together. It's a lot of fun. you grow, like you do the journey together. And we missed out on all of that. It was all remote.

So number one, like that didn't get to happen. So I didn't get to have that bombing experience with my peers. And the remote training was good. They did a really, really good job. And I think the people who were in charge of running the program and the materials and kind of helping us get on board did a really excellent job. So there's nothing bad to say there, but it was mostly just eight hours a day of training. So you'd be in meetings, presentations, and then you'd do some group work and so on. And that was for about a month.

And then for the two months after that, kind of continued to train into your solution area and then they set you free. So I would say onboarding was great. They did a good job. The part after that, I think when I realized what my job was actually going to entail and the impact I didn't have, as well as the lack of freedom I had, I started to think like, okay, what else can I do to actually improve my skillset?

Marie (12:06.322)

Yeah, I think actually that's around the time we met because I feel like I think that I spoke at like a women's leadership panel or something like that for the incoming like college hire class that we had. And I remember you reaching out to me afterwards and we were like a lot of a couple of our first conversations were really about just like getting started, digging into the career and like how do we make it the thing that we want and a lot of

This is really funny, but like the majority of people that I talk to at Microsoft, especially coming out of the Aspire program, like I am talking literally to like five or six, six of the Aspire's from the August cohort now. And a lot of them, like a lot of our work is like, how do I switch roles? Like I was literally talking to someone yesterday and they were like, you're like the queen of moving around at Microsoft. And I'm like, I don't know if that's a good thing, but like, I know I am.

I was like, yes, so let's talk about it. I feel like that was initially how we began talking, which is like the same thing for you of like, how can I get into something that feels more impactful? I will say to you, not to like say anything negative about Microsoft or the Microsoft experience and starting out, but there is this thing that happens, I think, especially for Aspires, because I came in as an Aspires while seven years ago, and I did come in from industry like,

industry, was like in the industry, I got my masters and I came in that way. And I remember everyone joining and having this expectation of making this massive impact at the company and like with our customers. And like, I think part of it is there's this really big hype in the Aspire training of how important we all are as Aspires, like how important like being a part of the new generation at Microsoft is and having that new and different perspective is. And

It's like, really feel that for the first couple of months. And then you go off into the business and you're like, I'm basically a glorified intern. Not that we're really glorified interns, know, but we're like, like, what is the impact that I'm really able to make here? And like, how do I navigate this new place? And, how do I make people take me seriously? Like, I remember the first three years I worked at Microsoft and I still, this still happens occasionally. Like I work with our, one of our executive leadership teams, but

Marie 2 (14:27.598)

I'll come across someone else, especially if they see me on camera. They're like, you're very junior. I feel like that was like my big issue. The first, like the beginning of Microsoft was just like, how do I get over this coming in as an Aspire thing? And how do get people to take me seriously? And how do I work on the things that I want to work on? So, um, I don't think you're alone necessarily in that.

Yeah, that definitely resonates. And I think it resonates with my whole class too. And if I look back in my class, the majority of people have switched out of their roles, but you're doing great work helping the kids there now.

my gosh, well thank you, thank you, thank you. So yeah, so tell me when did you, yeah, tell me your path to leaving Microsoft. I know you were doing like, you were helping someone with a startup. I remember we talked about this, but like, yeah, give me the whole rundown of what you started doing and creating and building alongside your job and how that kind of cascaded out.

Yeah, so at Microsoft, think it took me a while to really realize what my role entailed. And then once I realized that, I was kind of looking, I realized that it wasn't going to be enough for me. So I'm always someone who's like trying to grow as a person. And if the role I'm doing, like I'm still going to do it well.

but I'm going to look for other avenues to expand my knowledge and challenge myself. And so that's what happened with this other company. So a friend of mine that I had since Stanford days had started a company and it was a startup. They were awesome. They had a small team and they wanted some help in like the product and like research analytics and data space. And that's kind of where I fit well. And so I did some work for them and that gave me some product knowledge. It gave me some growth and a lot of insight into an early stage startup, which is very exciting.

Maika (16:08.494)

And then eventually with Microsoft, I kind of got to the point where I thought maybe I should move to a different role within Microsoft. And that would be encompassing for all of my needs. So I started looking around and I had a lot of interviews and for some reason I did very well in the interview process, but never ever got the actual like offer at all. So I went through a couple of different full round interviews, never got the offer. No one would ever give me a reason why they'd usually ghost me. Unfortunately, I don't know why that happened.

Because I know you can find people in Microsoft. You know they're active. They're in other people can find you. What do they do? They're so nice to me on the interview. So it's not funny. It's not like the real world where you can actually go somewhere. like can see you in my network.

Yeah, you're like, wait, I know that you're online. I know what you're doing right now. Like I know you're working hours. You're not that far away from me actually. No, this is really funny. So I love this. I had the same experience. And then through my, even though I've shifted a lot at Microsoft, I actually, there was a team that I only look back on this and still laugh. There's a team that gave me the indication that they really wanted to bring me onto the team. The hiring manager was like, I really want to hire you. And like, I have the last day. like,

I just need you to go through the interview rounds. And I went through the interviews and it was so funny. It was for a team that was working in AI. And there was an interview, one of my loops, one of the guys that I interviewed with was like really deeply technical and like had a lot of experience with like AI and ML. And was asking me all of these really deep design questions, but it was like this really vague, vague design question. there was like nothing really like solid there. Like I could tell he was making up as he went.

And he was like, I'm not looking for a particular answer. You know, I just want to know how you're thinking about this. And I'm like, okay. And I think very differently. Like, it's the best way that I can put this. Like I'm not, I don't know. And so we were talking through some things and I was asking him a bunch of questions and I could tell that I wasn't giving him what he wanted.

Marie (18:12.728)

But like, he was like, but I'm not looking for anything in particular. But I was like, but he is, like, he's trying to guide me to this one very specific answer in place, even though there's no specific answer. Like, there was no right answer for this. And it was really fascinating because I was like, I don't know where you're trying to guide me. know, like, let's, like, help me out here, which I don't think I said, but, know, was asking a ton of questions and we were going back and forth. And then at the end of the interview,

A couple of days later, I reached back out to the team because the hiring manager is out of office. And it was like his skip that ended up his manager that ended up manager's manager that ended up reaching back out and was like, yeah, you we don't think you're the best person for the role. And I was like, could you provide me some feedback? And I think I forget exactly what the feedback was, but I actually, I went back to them and I was like, I was like, look, if you're truly looking for someone that has like a diverse way of thinking, you cannot be guiding them.

to one specific answer and to like think in the one exact way that the whole rest of your team thinks. And I remember like sending this really long, not terrible message, but I look back on it I'm still laughing that I did it. And I'm glad that I did it because I think this happens a lot in products and product groups, especially at places like Microsoft, but really probably all over the industry where we say we want something different, but like really we want someone that looks different, but like thinks the same exact way, right? And I was just like, what are you?

I was like, know, I like, I know the rest of the interview loop and I know nobody thinks like I think, right? And it's like, it's a pro until it's not a pro, right? And if it's not the exact thing that you want. And so there's that, like, I always think back on that and I'm like, man, I hope I never do this. Cause it feels very like hypocritical and wrong. And then how the ghosting thing is like, especially internally, you're like, hello, I'm just down the hall from you. Can you just like...

Like I actually see you coming into the office every day. Like, can you just let me know what's going on? But I feel like the thing that happens oftentimes, because I work with people now, like outside of Microsoft, not necessarily landing jobs in Microsoft, but across the industry and industries is like oftentimes, especially with bigger companies, teams will have pre-identified their person and like you will just have no idea about it. And so then you'll go through a loop and no matter how well you do, it's like.

Marie (20:33.624)

sometimes not even going to matter. Like even in the case of the team that I interviewed for, like they didn't choose me, right? But the hiring manager was like, we want you, we're going to hire you, just go through the loops. So that thing told like, it's something that totally happens that no one really talks about. And I think it's like, it's a little bit, it's a little bit unfair. Because you're like wasting everybody's time. So that's unfortunate. I'm sorry that you have that experience.

Thank you for sharing your experience too. makes me feel less alone. I know this happens a lot and I do feel for the hiring side as well because I get it that it's hard. you know, it's one of those things that so many companies have popped up to try to fix hiring because it's a messed up system. you know, it's going to take a long time before we figure out something better.

For sure. Yeah, yeah. So okay, hold on. So you were applying for interviewing for a ton of other jobs internally. And what else?

That was mostly it. was still working for the startup. The startup wanted to, was actually trying to offer me a position. So then that transition started to happen. Like, okay, I could jump ship and then move to this startup, which is awesome. And they're still awesome and doing really well. But then I had another idea about potentially doing my own thing. Cause I've always wanted to do my own thing. It was just, I've always had a bunch of ideas. I have the like energy and the execution to be able to do my own thing. But there was no idea that I couldn't.

get out of my head, know, something would come, I'd work on it for like a week and it'd be like kind of fizzle out. But I had the idea for Webasee or what became Webasee and that stayed in my head. I was up at night, I was calling my friends. I called my then, like my now co-founder and him being willing to join me made us, made me feel like, okay, this is like, I can do this. So there's a little bit of a confidence boost in doing things with other people that you trust. But that was kind of the moment for me.

Marie (22:25.398)

I love that. Okay. okay. This is so good. So like, let's go back to like the very beginnings of WebISY. So like what inspired this idea? And then like talk to me a little bit more about just this, this concept of like the idea didn't leave you. I love this so much because I work with a lot of people as well who want to start a business.

or start their own thing. And they're like, they say the exact same thing actually that you said. And I resonate with this a lot of like, I have a lot of ideas. I know I can follow through and execute on them, but like nothing really sticks for all of that long, right? And then it's like, until you find the thing. So it's like, how do you find the thing? It's like such a big question. And then like, what do you, like, how do know that you found the thing? So yeah, if you could give, give a little bit of insight into what that looked like for you in terms of like this idea dropping in, like what was it inspired by?

How did that unravel?

Yeah, totally. there is like a founding story of Webasee that is publicized and I've talked about before, but I'll give you some more backstory because there is more backstory and then I'll tell you the founding story. But I think one thing is that I've always grown up, as you know, like Asian cultures are a little bit more

Okay, and comfortable with talking about death, ancestry being connected to life and death, the circle of life, that sort of thing. So Japan's the same. I grew up going to like, great grandmother's funeral or be going to temples and shrines and walk like there's cemeteries spread out randomly throughout Japan so that you'll just walk through school and walk to school and you'll walk through cemetery. It's just normal. It's just part of everyday life. So that's number one.

Maika (23:57.814)

And then number two, actually working for Cirque, a couple people have passed away while I've been working for Cirque du Soleil. And it hasn't been like on, like when I was performing, that kind of thing, but people very close to the act I was performing or the show I was performing or the community have passed away on the job. So this is something that's very serious and isn't really talked about very much because, you know, the whole point is entertainment and happiness and professionalism, but it has happened because it's dangerous work.

And so I think working for CERC and working for circus arts in general, there have been moments where things have not been quite safe for me specifically. And that's moments where you kind of think about your own safety. And I think the moment when I, as an adult, first had to face my mortality was when I first joined CERC and I had to sign my life insurance, not life insurance papers, but my beneficiaries.

I'm sitting at the table, I'm 18, this woman sitting right next to me, signing all these papers, like getting paid, which is great. And then she's like, okay, who do you want to leave all your money to if you pass away? This is real. This is a real thing. So yeah, think death, mortality, kind of that memento mori, remember that you die, has been with me for a while.

I'm also very into philosophy and so stoicism has a lot to do with like talking about, know, like accepting your death and so on. So that has always been a cool part that I like to like reflect on, talk about and so on. So that's the backstory. I'll pause there if you have any like points that you want to bring up because the founding story is pretty much this like, you know, something I've repeated a couple times.

No, I love this. This is amazing. Actually, it's like this realization of, well, like one, this almost like total acceptance and celebration of death and the circle of life, as well as the realization of like your own mortality, right? Cause I think it's one thing to accept the death around us. It's another thing to come and realize like, shit, like at any moment I too can die. Right? I think this is really cool. think it's really beautiful. And it's, yeah, it's something I want to circle back to, but continue please.

Maika (26:06.816)

Okay, yeah, it's a big topic. I think everyone should spend some time thinking about it, even though it's scary. so, you know, the real catalyst for what the sea was during the pandemic, my cousin, my cousin, unfortunately, passed away is my older cousin, but he wasn't that much older. And so you I think it was like, another moment where I realized that that's eventually something that we'll all experience. But I also got to firsthand see what it's like for someone or like, when people don't have a will when people don't have a plan.

and you have assets to deal with. And then I spoke to my now co-founder and he had a really similar situation with his best friend's sister and she had a lot of crypto. So both in Coinbase and both in non-custodial accounts and the next eight months they spent trying to know gain access back to it or recover it and we saw all kinds of things with social media and the digital lives and digital legacy we have online.

So we knew that there was a huge opportunity here to first of all help people and then second of all use software to solve this new problem that isn't handled by traditional stuff. So that's how WebSE was born.

So amazing. my gosh. I could totally see how this could be something that would drop into your mind that you couldn't get off of your mind. think too. So similarly, a really close friend of mine, her dad passed a few years ago and she like will still to that. She actually wrote this beautiful essay about like all the paperwork that comes with death, right? Like, and how almost like the processes that we have to go through overshadow the actual like.

grieving and the actual like experience of death and the acceptance and the celebration of someone's life. Because if you're the person that has to deal with the paperwork and like the stuff that comes with death, it's like where and when do you actually get to grieve and like actually get to experience the death itself, right? Celebrate it, pay homage to it, respect it, celebrate yourself, like take the time for yourself, which is like impossible, I think. this is such a cool.

Marie (28:05.664)

necessary, just like beautiful concept, I think, a beautiful like idea. Yeah, and was there like a particular moment for you where everything came together and you were like, this is really happening and you were feeling it?

Yeah, I think when I started building the product and iterating through the concept and when I realized the opportunity for it, I think was when I was like, okay, this is worth leaving Microsoft for.

First of all, looking at the space, there weren't many companies actually tackling the digital asset side. There's some wonderful, wonderful companies that are tackling getting people to create wills, putting together paperwork ahead of time. And that's not something we're working on. So it's like, these companies are doing great. I want to do and create the solution for the next thing that we're moving to. We're all moving online. All of our assets are going be presented online, and we have no way to fix that. the excitement of the I'm still excited. Even six months later, I'm like, there's so much to do.

Yeah, and I think every day I just woke up wanting to work on WebISy instead of wanting to do my Microsoft work. like, okay, so that's the change because I'm not doing Microsoft justice at all.

Okay, I love this. This is amazing. So the moment that you realize this, like, did you start planning like an exit plan? Did you just decide you were gonna jump ship? Like, what does it look like? And then specifically, like, because you're working in a startup and tech space, like, what did it look like for you? Did you guys get funding? What was that process? Yeah, walk me through all of it.

Maika (29:38.284)

Yeah, so I'm a little bit of a risk adverse person, which is funny because of the jobs I've had and my decision to leave like a very stable job. But I was deciding between this startup, my friend's startup that I was working for and was stable and was offering a great position, staying at Microsoft, maybe continuing to find another position or doing WebSE. And I think my interest and preference towards startup style work where I'm like clearly just everything I do impacts the business was more my speed, but then it was just between the two.

And then I realized that I will always like, you will always work harder on something that you're more interested in. And that was WebSE. And so as soon as I knew that I told my manager that I was putting in my notice and for some reason, everything went really well. Like she told me congratulations more than anything. You told me congratulations. You were so happy for me. And everything was really smooth after that. And this is funny because they had just gone through the paperwork of moving me to San Francisco.

Yeah, that was just kind of funny timing. But after that, it was pretty smooth. And then I did two more weeks and that was it.

That's amazing. I didn't even realize that you put in just, just did two weeks and then you were out.

think it was two weeks, it could have been four, I can't really remember.

Marie (30:48.198)

Yeah, I feel like maybe you might have told me like pre, yeah, you might have told me that before you told your manager, because I feel like you told me four weeks before. And yeah, I was so excited. I'm still so excited. Like, it's, I think it's so amazing. It's really funny. Actually, I was just in like a mentor call yesterday with one of the Aspires from the August class that came in. And he was talking to me about

another Aspire who joined around that timeframe who I don't know this person who's like, do you know this person? I think he's like kind of famous. And I was like, I don't think I know him. And he's like, yeah, I recognized him. And then a few days later, I realized like, he's like TikTok famous. And he's all over social media. And he's like monetized it. I think because of like his dog or something. I was like, that's pretty cool. And he was like, yeah, he just quit Microsoft actually. And it was really amazing because this conversation was like,

I mean, I think he's kind of crazy because he's leaving like benefits and like, you never know what's going to happen. And like in the back of my head, I was like, my God, I'm about to tell him that I'm leaving too. And like, and I'm like, is it really that crazy? Like, is this crazy?

I have so many questions about what you're doing right now, like what has happened.

We can totally go into it. I'm like, I'm here for it. I'm ready for it. But it's funny. I don't think to me, like you are your safest asset. And so when you're like, I'm leaving and I'm going to go do this thing that I want to do. I was like, fuck yes. Because you can always come back to Microsoft, right? You can always go to like any like, let's say safe, high paying, epically benefited.

Marie (32:23.074)

tech company that you want to go to, like at any point in time, it's always an option for you. But stepping out and doing something for yourself, like, I mean, that's always also an option by the way, it's never not an option, but at the end of the day, like you are your safest asset, right? And like doing the thing that your heart is telling you to do, I think is the most, to me is the most important thing. and so despite your like, I know considering the jobs I've had, seemed very risk averse, but to me, I'm like, actually, no, it doesn't seem risky at all. feels, it seems like the safest and the surest thing that you can do. So.

Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. And also I to say, I'm so, like, for some reason I was like, she gave four weeks. Like what were your last couple of weeks? Like were you even, were you checked in? Were you checked out?

I was kind of checked out. It's not great. I did wrap things up with my customers and like did a couple of things and I still put in my hours. I spent more of the last two weeks kind of mentoring like the community that the next group coming in. So that was more fun. I did like a brunch and brew coffee thing and spend more time with the Nexus fires because I felt like the best use of what I could give. Yeah, I was kind of checked out. It was not great.

Oh, that's amazing. No, yeah, no, I love it. yeah. So for me, I, can, we can dive into all of this stuff. I, as we talked about, I don't know if I have this in the recording or not at the beginning, but just had like the craziest last couple of months of the year of 2022. But last year around like May, June, actually when you were exiting, I feel like that's like when I was just getting things started with my own business. Cause I was like, Oh, Hey, follow me on social media at the Corpse Psychic.

And you were like, what is this? You were like, wait a second, you have a business? what, like, what is this? yeah. And so it started out really just as like, super similar and that it was an idea that came to my mind that I couldn't stop thinking about. And I was like, Hmm. And it wasn't even just like, couldn't stop thinking about it. Like there's a problem that needs to be solved. It was just like, I can't not.

Marie (34:20.558)

Like I can't not do something with this idea, I guess. Like that's what was kind of like happening. was like, oh, you can't not do something with this. And I felt so compelled to just start working on it. And so for me, it just, it's like literally the corporate psychic was a union or like an integration of two very opposing things. so hence the name corporate psychic, like corporate is a super triggering word in the spiritual space we could say. In like,

almost any space actually outside of corporate. Like anyone that I talk to every time I meet, like every time I, every time I meet someone and I'm traveling, they're always like, oh, corporate, like, the 95. And what's fascinating is like just the other day I was talking to my best friend who works at a non-profit, but she worked in government before. And I sent her this, was like, actually I think it was an excerpt of a podcast talking about

just how low women and women with children are ranked in the appreciation of the corporate ladder. Like women with children are like at the bottom. It's awful. Whereas like fathers, like men with children were like at the top and they like make the most money and women with children make like the least amount of money. And I sent it to her and she's like, I'm so glad that I'm not in corporate, right? Like this is why we're for nonprofit. And I was just like, what is going on? Like everybody hates on corporate, but I'm also like, but you totally are like in my mind, I'm like, even though you're for a nonprofit, like you totally.

are still like a nine to five person that like works like to me, that's all corporate, right? Like all businesses are corporate. And I think about this too, like not that corporate's bad, obviously it's in my name. Like I work for a massive corporate company right now. And I truly don't like have anything at all against corporations. I think like people are the things that suck your souls, not factual business, right? Like it's not the business itself, but it's this really fascinating thing where it's so easy, like the word corporate, corporation.

that even the energy behind it, so easy to hate on. And then the same thing is true almost at psychic where it's like the space that is like stereotypically just like really mystical and out there. Also like back in the day, people with any type of like known abilities would be literally killed or like excommunicated. And it's still a space where it's so triggering that even in the spiritual community or world, like when I told my mentor and coach that I was gonna...

Marie (36:40.468)

use the name, the corporate psychic for my business. Like her first reaction was, you sure you want to use the word psychic? Like that's a very triggering word. Like, what are you, you know, are you like, what is it? What's that about? Like, what's the thing? And I'm like, that is the thing. And the idea behind it is not to really identify with either space, but it's like, how can we bring together all parts of self? How can we integrate all parts of self, all parts of human beings, each of us, all parts of like energy.

together into one and like grow from that space, right? And like use that as expansion as opposed to like this thing that we do in life where we categorize ourselves, like I'm a corporate person or like I'm a psychic or like I'm a swimmer, I'm a surfer, I'm a climber, right? Like all of these different things that we have for ourselves and almost all these different personalities we use when we like are in different situations, right? Like when we're with our group of people.

So I was like, how can we just, and for so many years I've been thinking like, how can I show up fully in myself?

and make money doing that. That was a thought that I had for so long. was like, how can I just be myself and not necessarily make money for being me, right? But how can I just show up in one place 100 %? And I had been working over the past seven years to really get to that place even at Microsoft and in the corporate space, which I feel like, by the way, it's so much easier to do when you're a remote person versus when you have to go into the office, right? Things are different when you see someone every single day and you feel like you have to dress a certain way or.

act a certain way or like eat a certain thing or like all of the little subconscious things that happen with us. And so I was like, oh, I think I'm going to lean into this idea. And at the same time I was going through this spiritual awakening. And so the word psychic felt just like so, so good. Cause I was experimenting with like practicing tarot and like reading the Akashic records and like really diving into the cold space. And so was like, I can totally like, I've been mentoring people forever. I've been like helping people like move into the

Marie (38:40.012)

the career of their dreams for forever also. Why am I not charging people money for this? Like that like thought came across my head. I was like, and I also am doing readings. Like, why do I not charge people money for this? And so when I started the corporate psychic, was like this fun side project that I couldn't get out of my head. And then now it has just like totally unraveled into something completely different. But essentially like this year, like my personal life got so crazy. So much was happening.

Like death is one of those things that came up in the past couple of months, like multiple, many deaths actually, not in a bad way. And at the same time, my business was like flourishing. It was doing so well. So was like all this contraction and expansion at one time. And really similar to you, Microsoft was the last thing on my list. Like every single time. It was just the last thing that like, even though it was the thing that was paying me my money, even though it was the thing that like gives me benefits, right?

it was the last thing that I would come to. And so from January until literally like maybe a week or two ago, I didn't even work a full week of work. I think for like seven or eight weeks, maybe even nine weeks, like almost every single day, something happened in my life where I had to step away from work. And I realized like I was deprioritizing work so much. Cause like, was like, maybe this is not really where I'm supposed to be anymore. You know, like maybe this isn't the thing that's really growing me. And I had said back in November to one of my coaches that

Cause I totally don't believe you have to quit your nine to five. Like this is a huge part of a lot of my work and work with people. Like I totally don't believe you have to quit your job. The thing that sustains you to like go do the thing that you want to do. Like a lot of times I think we can have both. And part of the idea behind my business was this realization that like I did my yoga teacher training 10 years ago and then I did another one maybe five years ago. And both times I went through this process of like learning this new aspect of myself.

and then not being sure how to integrate it into the other aspects of myself. And then having this full existential crisis of like, do I need to my job now? Like that happened multiple times. And I've seen it happen so often with people, especially people in the spiritual space, but like really people like in all sorts of different spaces that are not totally like, I don't know, fully seeing themselves as like the stereotypical type A person in corporate, right? And then there's this thing of like, do I quit my job?

Marie (40:59.65)

What do I do? How do I do it? And like the answer is I think you integrate all of yourself and then you see like what comes. And so yeah, back in November, I was talking to a coach and I was just like, look, I don't want to quit my job. And I don't want to sell the story of like, you need to quit your job to go do the thing that you want to do because I don't believe that. But so I don't want to quit my job until I have to choose until I'm so busy in both places that like I can't continue doing both because I love my life.

I love living my life. love surfing. love traveling. Like I want to have fun. And so to me, like working 80 hours a week is like never, ever, ever something I want to do. Even if I'm like in love with what I want to do, I want to again, enjoy my life. And so this past couple of months, it really came to that of like, okay, down to the line, what do I pick? I pick myself, right? Like I pick my business. And so that like that hit me and I was like, maybe it's to step away. and then on top of that, like,

I think similar to you just having encounters with death and close encounters with death, it's like this realization of life is really short. And so why not do the thing that you want, right? Like what if you were gonna die in a month from now, would you regret not leaving and like starting a business? Of course, probably, right? Or even like think about like imagine if you make it until you're like 95 and you're like.

hopefully not in a nursing home, but like walking around still feeling like really great in your body. But if you look back on your life, do you want to be like, I worked at Microsoft for 50 years? Probably not. Maybe, like, I don't know, maybe, right? Or do you want to be like, huh, I gave it my all at the thing that I really truly wanted to try, right? And then I tried the next thing and then I tried the next thing. And I learned and I grew and I expanded so much through all of these experiences. Not by the way that it's terrible to work.

at the same job for 50 years. Like that's not bad. So yeah, it was just this realization. then sometime around January as well, when my business started really picking up, I had this moment of, and I think you felt the same thing of like realizing that my impact even at Microsoft would be bigger if I left. And it was like this thing of like, like maybe if I stay here, I'm keeping myself small.

Marie(43:20.332)

And like, maybe it's like, love what you said when you were like, I knew that this role wasn't going to be big enough for me. Like I knew it wasn't enough for me. And that's such a beautiful realization because I think what happens, especially when you're young and you join like any big company, but really you start any kind of like entry level job. Not that where you started at Microsoft was entry level. Cause totally wasn't like people work their career to get there. But oftentimes I think what happens is when you're younger, you have like,

so much passion and energy and things to give and desire to give and make an impact. And then you join a company, almost any company, and you're almost just smacked down and told to get in line. And you're like, wait for your time. And we have this storyline in our society of work really hard, do the really tedious stuff, get good at it, and then move your way up. Be grateful for what you have.

And I think what's so beautiful about your story is you were like, no, like this isn't enough for me. I know I can do more and I'm not going to settle. I think that's so cool. It's it's yeah. I feel in a lot of ways, like I'm like, okay, I've done my time, right? Not even, not that we have to do our time anywhere, but I'm just like, it's, it's time now to move on and do something different.

Yeah, my gosh, there's so much in there that I appreciate you saying and that I feel like should be pulled and put on a mug to drink your coffee. I think the first thing that really stuck in my mind was the reasoning for the name of your company, right? And I like how you don't shy away from the challenge of the stigma that comes with the words and you're breathing new power into it. I think that's something that people, it just sticks in your head because of that, right? It's jarring and you're bringing positivity to it. So that's really cool.

I think the other thing I really agree with was that you don't have to leave your nine to five to do the things you want also. And I think that I did that for a really long time. And I just left because I wanted to. It's not because I necessarily had to. Right. And my father has been working at the same company for 30 years and he loves it. So there are people who just love to do that. And that's great. If you look at his LinkedIn, it's just the same company. I'm even half his age and it's just.

Maika (45:41.454)

Anyways, but yeah, no, yeah, I really, probably will just go back and listen to everything you just said because it was very powerful.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I don't know. It's such a cool time in realization. But I think the thing that's so cool about your story and also mine just in believing the thing that sustains you and that's safe and comfortable comes back to exactly what you just said, like the choice of it, right? Like doing it because you want to and because it felt good, like not because you're like,

my God, I have to get out of this. my God, I have no other options. Like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Like obviously the existential crisis comes like no matter what, but there's like this beautiful thing and recognizing that we have the power to choose and that you get to choose the thing that you want. Like, I think that's so cool. Okay. So when you were leaving though, so when you, when you put your notice in and you knew you were starting WebASy, how did you feel? Were you kind of scared?

No, I was so excited. Like I said, I woke up every day like so excited to work on the next big thing. I was just felt like I was chiseling away at my dream of making this a reality and a success. And yeah, it was, yeah, there was some scariness, but I think like you said, you can always go back to the things like, I think we're in a very lucky position that people in tech, especially if you've already had a job in tech, you can pretty much know that.

you can find another job at another company. And that's really, there's some security in that. But also it gives me that safety net that I can give it my all in this company, because there is a backup and it kind of felt the same way as Cirque. Like I can go do Cirque because I can always come back to school. And there is a beautiful freedom and knowing that there is that safety net. And I know some people do not have the ability to have that safety net or the luck to have that safety net. So I feel for that. But I do happen to have that and I'm making the most of it.

Marie (47:39.176)

my gosh. that's so wise too. Cause I think often it's so sad whenever there's something that we want to do and we have the full capability to do it, but we don't allow ourselves to do it because like we know other people wouldn't be able to, right? It's something that, I, so I don't know if you know this about me, but I'm also divorced. I got married when I was like 25, I think, and then divorced by like 27.

pretty short marriage, maybe 28. And I remember like, I remember having this distinct moment of realization of like, people would kill for my life. And I feel this way about Microsoft a little bit too, like leaving. I'm like, people would kill for my life. Like, especially, cause I think when I was married, like we had this like big beautiful house on the water, like.

I was in my like mid twenties. He was a little bit older than me. Like we both made really good money. We had like nice cars. We had like the dogs, the house, like we would travel all the time. Like everything on paper looked epic, right? I remember a couple of our friends came over and one of them was like, man, this is the house that, you know, I hope to buy one. I'm like 40. And it was just like this moment of like, man. And I, and for so long, actually like the entire marriage, I felt that

because I was in such a position of privilege that I should be grateful and then I should stay there. Like that I shouldn't make a change because I should be grateful for what I had. So I really love that you said that because when I did make like all of the change in my life, totally unraveled in such a great way, making the decision to leave, it's like this knowing and this realization of like, like, yes, you might have everything and people might kill like to work at Microsoft or to work in tech or to have this thing or.

to live the life that you live and the exact way that you live it. But like also realizing that if it's not for you, like you're not doing anyone else's service. Like no one, anybody who wants your life is not being served by you living the life that you don't want to live, right? And if anything, stepping out of the thing that's not doing it for you into the thing that is doing it for you is only going to grow and expand you more, which is only going to grow and expand all the people around you more, right? Which is only then kind of like.

Marie (49:57.162)

allow and hopefully inspire other people into the things that they actually want. So I think that's really cool. And that was a good call. A good call out.

Thank you. Yeah, no, I 100 % feel that. I think even attending university, I think there's Stanford in particular, there's this weird feeling that I think a lot of undergrads have. It's a little bit of guilt that they get to attend this. First of all, it's just the most beautiful school ever. It's like a paradise. But then you just feel this weird kind of like angsty privilege about being able to attend the university, whether it's through scholarship, whether it's not.

And that comes out in weird ways. Like people feel strange about what they need to be doing versus what they want to be doing. They maybe don't fulfill their full potential because they feel like it's like it's not like something they earned or whatever it may be. And these are high performing academic smart kids because they made it into Stanford. But yeah, that's definitely there. And I think it happens across many kinds of elite universities, elite places. Tech, think, has that a little bit too, depending on the kind of person you are.

Yeah, I think it's hard to say. think a lot of people haven't come to terms with like, you know, it's okay to put yourself first once in a while because you being a better person makes the world a better place. That's my personal opinion.

Yeah, no, I agree with that so much. this is, I think this is such an important topic, especially so like coming from a parent, both of us have parents who immigrated here, right? Like, did you ever feel that pressure that you had to fulfill a certain thing? Cause this is like exactly what happened that I feel like in my life. So for me, I was the first person that actually went to college like in like from my parents, know? And so I felt all this pressure to like become a doctor.

Marie (51:42.274)

like so difficult, but I was like, have to be a doctor or like a lawyer. And my mom, like, as a kid, she was like, you're going to be a lawyer, not because she like, well, I think a little bit stereotypically, like Asian wanted me to be like in the successful careers, but also because she's just she to say that I was really good at arguing and that I would always debate everything. She's like, you'd be such a great lawyer. But yeah. And I remember as an undergrad too, just feeling like that resonated so much, feeling this need.

to do something that I didn't wanna do so that I could like fill some shoes that were not my shoes, right? And like this thing of like, okay, I'm here now and college is really expensive. And like, I better do something really good with this. And similarly, I think when it came to joining Microsoft, that was in large part was in the back of my mind, which by the way, I totally threw that away in college. Like I was studying, I started out studying piano performance and chemistry and I ended up

taking a philosophy class, fellow philosopher and like following him up with it. And I like, was like, fuck everything else. And I just studied philosophy and I was like, that's what I'm going to study. And like everyone that I knew, I remember like fell off their chairs. Like my grandparents started inviting like all these female doctors over to the house to like have dinner with me, like all these women and these like really high paying powerful careers, like would invite them over and be like, come have dinner with our friend.

she wants to talk to you about your future. And I'd be like, what?

I don't know what she was doing.

Marie (53:14.88)

my gosh, that's so good. yeah. So that resonates so much. And even like joining Microsoft, for me, it was the thing that like at the time I felt like, when else am going to get the opportunity to join Microsoft? Right? Like that was totally, it wasn't my head because it wasn't on my radar. think until I, until I got the opportunity to be here and now that I'm here, I'm so grateful. And at the same time that desire, that internal need or drive to do the thing that we

think might be expected of us or like outwardly seems like would be better for us to do or make the most sense. That drive is like real. It's super powerful. It like keeps people in the positions and the lives that they live for the entire lifetimes, right? So I don't know, like, did you ever have those moments? I ask you this because your career is like,

like is risk averse as you mentioned earlier, right? Like you, think it's like one of my favorite things ever is hearing that you left Stanford for two years, like to go fulfill some dreams and like something that was a hobby of yours, right? And I think even like I almost took a year off at university to go to South Africa with a couple of my friends. And I decided not to cause my parents were like, you're never going to go back if you leave. But I loved hearing you be like Stanford's always going to be there. And I feel that so much now, like take yourself full.

always be there or like if it's not Microsoft, something will always be there. But I'm curious, like, did you always feel the freedom to explore the things that you wanted or did you ever feel a little bit of like push slash drive to fulfill something on behalf of your parents or on behalf of expectations around you?

I I got a little lucky for two reasons. So first, I'm a second child. So my older brother kind of took the blunt of that. like whatever he went through, the expectation was much less on me growing up. And then the second thing was that think my parents knew from a very young age that they would never be able to tell me what to do, which is like I wasn't a bad kid by any means. But if I wanted to do something, I was just going to do it. So I think.

Maika (55:25.422)

In that sense, I never really felt like pressure from them. I always felt some internal pressure to whether it was like succeed, be the best, you know, whatever, improve. And I remember starkly that the only fight I ever had with my father, so he's the Japanese one and you know, stereotype for Japanese dads is that they're really strict and they're like, oh, you need to be the one to be a doctor and get good grades. He's the anti-opposite of that. it's not anti-opposite, he is the opposite.

So cool. like, he's really, even as he's aged, become more lax and more chill and more about like, do whatever you want. But the only fight we ever had was I remember we were driving in the car, I think in Japan, and I had to tell him that I was taking another job. I was going to take the Cirque du Soleil job, which would extend my leave from Stanford. And this is the only time we ever fought because he was worried that he was worried at first when I first left school.

And then he thought, promised him I'd go straight back to school after that first job. And then this other job came up and I had to tell him that I wasn't going back yet. He just thought I was never going to go back. And I know from a parent's perspective, like circus acrobat versus Stanford degree, like from him, like I was making the stupidest choice ever. So that was a really tough car ride. And ever since then, we've still haven't had a single fight. And I think he knows that's the only fight we've ever had either, but I don't think he can complain now about what I'm doing. So all's good, but.

That was tough. That was really tough because you do feel you don't want to please the people that you care about. And that was a moment where I clearly was not, you know, but I believed in myself. Like you said, you have to you come to yourself and you're your own home and your own stability sometimes. So I had to do it.

that's so beautiful. my gosh, I love that too. Just in knowing that you were potentially going to disappoint your father, like so deeply at being like, Hey, I'm not going back to school, but I promise I am going back to school, but just like not yet. what like a, I don't know, just, I'm so proud of you. It's, it's really, I love that you've always allowed that internal compass to really guide you. I think in some ways I could relate to that because

Marie (57:28.736)

Well, my mom had two children, but I'm my dad's only child. so, and like the baby, obviously, if my mom's two children and so three children, I'm the third. In some ways, I think I was the same way. I remember when I was a kid, my mom would tell me to do something. And I used to be like, I'm doing this because I want to not because you told me to. So I was like very unruly and same, like not that I was bad, like not that I was misbehaved, but I did always do the things that I really wanted to do. And my parents

for years gave me this hard time about having to learn the hard way. Cause I was just one that I had to experience it. Like I didn't care if you told me, I just needed to experience it for myself. And so sometimes I learned things, definitely the hard way and sometimes I learned things really quickly. And so, I don't know, I think that's, oh my God, that's amazing. I'm like so, so, so excited that we could talk also.

Yeah, it would be awesome just to, I mean, I know we've like kind of stayed in touch here and there, but it would be amazing just to stay in touch more. Cause yeah, you're just such a like badass and incredible person and so inspiring and your life is such an inspiration and the way that you look at things is such an inspiration. I did want to ask you, and I do want to ask you, what are you, what are your days look like now compared to when you were working with the nine to five? Like what does your day to day entail? And

How often do you feel like you work and how happy and fulfilled you feel at the end of every day? I know it fluctuates with humans in its life, but yeah, where are you now?

That's a great question. think there's this, I'm not on TikTok, but for some reason I see TikTok videos. It's like a TikTok and like a real thing that's going around that these people are saying, instead of, I quit my 40 hour work week to pursue what I wanted. And instead of 40 hours a week, now I work 24 seven, like all the time. And I kind of feel that because I do work for WebSE all the time, but for some, but because it's something I want to work on.

Maika (59:29.454)

Um, it doesn't feel like work, of course. Right. So everything I do, like I either have to do it for the company or I want to do it. And so it is spread out through the weekend and so on. So my days typically start with like morning meetings, um, whoever that might be meeting with, um, some core work in the afternoon. I always work out every single day, whether that be rock climbing, whether it be just in the gym, going for a run, just kidding. don't I do run a little bit. I don't like running. Um,

And then in the evening, I try to do something fun. Like I also really enjoy living my life too. So, you know, seeing friends, reading, it might be more WebASY work that I consider more fun than other parts of WebASY. It's all there, but that's my day to day nowadays.

I love it. I love it. Yeah. I feel that too, by the way, since I started TCP, there's not a moment that goes by where I'm not in some way thinking about TCP. there's just not, whereas the beautiful thing I think about working for Microsoft is, and I know this is not true for everyone in the corporate space or everyone with a job of any sort, but like I truly shut my laptop and I like do not think about work.

I'm like, once my laptop was closed, I'm like, I am done for the day. And I actually recently like took all of the apps off my phone too. So like, don't even respond to like Teams or Outlook on my phone anymore. Whereas I would never, I couldn't imagine a life in which I did that for TCP. Like not have the apps on my phone so that I can be like talking to people and checking on things and working on stuff as I wanted to. But for the same exact reason, cause it's like, it's fun, right? Like it feels really good.

So tell me like, where has WebSE gone? Like, where are you guys now as a company? Like you have this platform. So like if for the people listening, is there one thing that you would want them to do? Because I know like in thinking about death and what we want to do like post death or what we want to happen post death, like I'm sure you have some opinions, right? And some things that literally every single person on this planet right now could probably take action on. Yeah.

Maika (01:01:39.726)

100 % so right now, obviously, we're still in beta. So we're really developing the platform. And the reason we still haven't gone public yet is because we are developing the platform really

we're putting a lot of thought into it because we're as if you've gone to our website, you've seen maybe if you were with us in the beginning, it was kind of around death, the messaging, but we've moved on now more towards protection, being prepared, peace of mind, that sort of thing, because that's something that as a company to provide value and onboard people for what matters to them today. And that's not always mortality. People don't want to think about it. our, you know, our philosophy is still around being prepared and living life to the fullest, but

our tech stack and our features have expanded beyond that because we're just capable of more. So that's one reason we are releasing very soon publicly. I would say to get on the wait list now and then you'll be notified when we are public. But when it comes to just preparing in general, I would say the biggest thing, I'm going through the process of doing my will myself. And even if you don't have much, it's a good process to kind of take stock.

check in with yourself. And it's also really daunting too, because no one likes to do paperwork. It's kind of a pain, but start the process, just start thinking about it. But WebSEA as a company, we raised, we're six months old now. We raised a small pre-seed round in Q4 of last year, which one, which like we weren't planning to raise. I think the pure necessity of what we were building, just people threw in, their tickets in the hat. And then we're about to launch actually our crypto product.

probably next month, like early next month. That's been huge, super exciting. There's a huge, know, crypto security is like not easy and it's not, it's hard for people and it's the even the current solutions are like dumb. It's the current solution is writing down on a piece of paper. Like there's gotta be something better than that. So we built it, we're testing it for security and it's gonna be out there soon. That's pretty exciting. That's where they come in.

Marie (01:03:39.806)

Amazing! That's so cool. So tell me more about the crypto solution. Well, whatever you can tell. So if there things you can't share yet, that's totally okay. But what's the idea behind it and how can people use it? And then would the advice be the same thing? Just get on the wait list.

Yeah, pretty much. yeah, crypto, think it was still it started started with what happens to crypto when you die, because I think the numbers at this point are 100 billion and Bitcoin only have been lost due to either death or loss of access to the original wallet. Isn't that crazy? Bitcoin only. And now there's all kinds of other different stuff you have to like think about.

So that was the original problem we wanted to solve and all of the historical recommendations for wallet security are, like I mentioned, the first one is write it down, keep it off the wall, give half to your mom, give half to your sister and say, if I ever die, put them together. You know, it's just, it doesn't make any sense. It's a Horcrux model of, like we're not living in Harry Potter, but the other one is this multi-sig solutions, like multi-signature on a single wallet.

There's no safe and that no safe protocol that things are built upon that is great. It kind of makes more sense for like a business or a Dow or is there's multiple people have to sign, right? So if one of them dies or two of them die, what are you really going to do? It's not a long-term solution. So we landed on this pre-approval smart contract tech.

If you pre-approved assets to be transferred on a specific trigger and that trigger either being loss of access if you're using our backup wallet or death if you die. So we're, there's a lot you can imagine that could be built on that system as well. So we have a lot of stuff on the roadmap, which I'm excited about, but that's the philosophy behind it. It's a better solution. But yeah, that's, it's pretty exciting. If you, how into like web three stuff are you?

Marie (01:05:24.162)

my gosh, like not super into like not knowledgeable, but definitely like active, which I think is a lot of people, the way, like the majority of, especially like lately with the boom, like we have friends who are like not tech people, but like really into stuff, you know, that could definitely, I feel like all of us could brush up our skills, right? Like we could all know a little bit more about what it is that we're actually doing. And especially like when it comes to what we're investing in and then like what

Yeah, no, I would say yes. Active, knowledgeable, not very.

Yeah, you're ahead of the curve for most. So it's just funny because being in the space, you think that everyone is in Web3, but it's not. Like most of the world is curious, but doesn't actually own any or want to know about it. And we're seeing a huge wave of it's going to become just more pertinent in our lives. And so that's kind of what we're preparing for. But for our launch, we're actually giving a thousand access tokens away for free. So you should. Yeah, it's there's a sign up on our crypto landing page, but we can, I can also just send that to you.

Thank

put your name on, but we're, yeah, we're doing access tokens first again to like iterate on our product, make sure it's ready for like the general use and so on.

Marie (01:06:35.566)

Yeah, I would love an access token. That would be so amazing. Yeah. I can't wait for it to come out. I literally, when you were talking about it, got chills. So yeah, I'm so pumped for you. I'm so freaking proud of you. I'm like so honored to know you. Um, yeah. Thank you for taking the time.

you

Marie (01:06:56.446)

Thank you for listening to this special episode of the Spiritual 9-5 with Maika Isogawa. I can't close without inviting you into my next offering, the Quantum Leap. Side hustle to profitable, soul aligned, sustainable, and life giving business. It's everything that I've learned through my own development inside and outside of corporate. The Quantum Leap will run from June 7th to July 7th, my last four weeks of Microsoft. I would love for you to join me to celebrate

learn, grow, expand into your highest level vision for you. If this resonates, email hello at thecorppsychic.com with quantum leap in the subject line, and we will answer all of your questions plus give you the hookup. Wherever you are, however you're doing, I'm so grateful for you, and I'm wishing you the best day. Can't wait to meet again, maybe next week, right here.

Episode 12. Tarot, Tech & Quantum Leaps: Mastery, Intuition, and Building the Life You Want

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:04.547)

Welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover of The Corporate Psychic. This week, I'm talking about Tarot, my journey to Microsoft and way beyond, and what it really takes to master a craft and quantum leap into your dreams. I hope that today's episode and that my story inspires you into movement, into self, and into a future that is beyond your wildest expectations. The story after all,

especially when it's a good one, never makes sense until it's over.

There are no shortcuts to the life of your dreams, but there are quantum leaps, collapse timelines, possibilities that you've never imagined available to you whenever you show up in your work. It feels really exciting and expansive and also scary for me to talk tarot on my podcast, but here I am. And February was the page of swords. So if you subscribe to my newsletter, you get a monthly reading.

February's reading was the page of swords and the ace of pentacles. In short, it said that even if you are green at something, AKA new or seemingly new, what you have to bring to the table matters. So show up. The ace of pentacles was a green light for bringing forward whatever work we wanted to bring into the world, knowing that with hard work and effort, our dreams would and will come to fruition. I read that February was

a really, really good time to put pen to paper and bring to life whatever has been circulating in your mind. Moving into March, the 8 of Pentacles comes forth with the High Priestess by its side, which is a beautiful combination. And it makes perfect sense in that March is the only month of 2022 where we have zero major planets in retrograde.

Marie Groover (02:05.387)

What? Which astrologically, and I'm not an astrologer mind you, it brings a potent time for bold, rapid, easy, forward moving energy to take advantage of. So if you didn't start your thing in February now, like today now, is a great time to start your thing. It's a great time to get into motion, specifically to dive into the thing that your intuition or your soul

calls for you to bring into the planet. Hello, High Priestess. If you don't know what that thing is, now is a really great time to do the deep inner work to get to know what it is that your soul wants you to bring to the planet. Because the Eight of Pentacles is very much a card of true productivity, real productivity, AKA moving the needle where it matters, even if it doesn't make sense. And

This signifies a time where you're invited to get deep into the work without it feeling very much like work at all. So it's a great time to take advantage of. This could be career work. If your career is meaningful, this could be homework, farm work, creative work. It could be your business. If it's an alignment with you, it could be your parenting, whatever it is, it's an opportunity to tap into your intuition and capitalize on your long term goals.

to make real progress towards them. The Eight of Pentacles in general is very much a soul mastery card. It's representative of the fruits of our labor when we show up in integrity over and over and over again. Specifically, the mastery of our craft that comes from showing up in integrity over and over and over again. It represents the nitty gritty moments, the moments that we flow through in life but then look back on with such pride and honor.

at the dedication that we once had or showed. The High Priestess is a major arcana card and it represents tapping into intuition. It represents a change in frequency traditionally where the veil is thin for us. It's a massive soul expansion card and it can even be an invitation card to explore your intuition or to come into your soul and your soul work. Now, when I first saw these two cards together, my thought was,

Marie Groover (04:32.749)

this is a time of flow, a time where you are so in flow that your being and your work represents almost a stream of consciousness from your intuition. The funny thing about this though, is that sometimes we can be so in flow that we don't realize how connected we actually are. It's a funny thing to be so connected that we don't recognize it and it's also a beautiful thing because

It means that we are truly in the work, heads down, focused, eyes on our own paper. I say this because oftentimes when we see the high priestess, we either are in the process of trying to connect with intuition, spirit, God, universe, our own knowing, highest self, et cetera, et cetera, that we don't feel like it's working or we really do feel like it's working and it makes sense that we see the high priestess. But in the pairing with the eight of pentacles in particular,

I want to emphasize that you are, that you are always connected to your intuition, that it hasn't gone anywhere and that it isn't going anywhere. And that being in your work is very much connecting with the divine and the divine energy. So if you find yourself in moments of worry this month, moments of headiness, moments of deciphering or forcing the how of your what, the how of your goals, then just come back to the work itself. That is your invitation.

Let go of trying to understand how everything fits together. Let go of worrying about where you're going. And just take note of what it feels, what feels really easy for you, what feels really natural for you this month, especially in your work. And then come back to that later in the year when things don't feel so smooth moving. When you forget why you're here, when you forget again where you're going, the work will take you there.

The work will also bring you back to yourself. Remember, the story doesn't always make sense until the end, especially when it's a good one. And while the work might feel normal and everyday to you, the outcomes can be epically beyond your wildest dreams if you don't constrain yourself with the results and if you allow yourself to flow through the work where it feels good and easy. When you show up in your work consistently with dedication and an open mind,

Marie Groover (06:59.265)

you will always surpass the limits you set for yourself. But if you're only focused on the outcome, if you're only focused on the end goal or the results, you might just meet them. And so with that, I want to share my story with you. It's a story where over and over again, being in my work led to unforeseen and massive opportunities for expansion, where growth and success sprouted. I studied philosophy in college.

I fell into it and I fell in love. For the first time in my life, I was learning to think for myself on my own terms, learning to trust what I was finding. And I was interested in the intersection of ethics and neuroscience specifically. So like what the brain told us about how we behave and then how justified it was to behave a certain way. Now that we know why we behave the way we do. I really wanted to get my PhD in philosophy.

but it was a rather pretentious field. And after presenting at my first conference, I knew that it wasn't a place for me. I didn't wanna argue for argument's sake. I didn't care about being right or wrong or how well together my argument was or anyone else's for that matter. I cared about how I ought to be living and how I ought to be spending my life. How I could be the best possible human.

So I really didn't have a plan for myself after graduation, though I did apply for the Peace Corps in my senior year and I was swiftly denied for lacking any skills, because remember, philosophy major. And I was a nanny in college. And my senior year, I got a text from my boss asking me if I wanted to travel with her and her family to the Grand Canyon for one week in the spring. And they would pay me $1,000. First of all, I would have gone for free.

I was not a well-traveled human by the age of 20, but I wanted to be, and the Grand Canyon was definitely at the top of my list, so I said yes. Fast forward to the spring and to the trip itself when we were driving down the road. I was reading a book called Brain Trust, again, intersection of neuroscience and philosophy, and I had all sorts of questions about the biology behind what I was reading. Barbara, my boss, and her husband, they were both scientists by training.

Marie Groover (09:21.951)

Barbara had studied physics and her husband biology. And so I started asking all sorts of questions as I read to make sure that I was understanding the science behind the book and the theories. I didn't ask questions because they were science backgrounds and I was trying to impress them. God, no. And I probably asked the least impressive questions. I asked because I was truly curious and fascinated. And it was through these interactions that I made an impression. And coming back from the trip,

Barbara offered me a full-time position at her company, EMEC. She saw it as a stepping stone for me into something else, and I'm so glad that she had a vision for me that was bigger than what I could have seen for myself, because her vision is a huge piece of what got me to today. She was an incredible mentor to me, especially considering it was my very first job, and I had no skills, as previously mentioned. And it must have been extremely frustrating to train someone on like,

the very basics of what it means to work in an office. Previous to this, I nannied, I bartended, I waited tables, I taught surfing, I baristaed, I generally worked outside or not in front of a computer. My computer skills consisted of writing lengthy papers and arguments and occasionally making a calculation. I had never used Excel. I did not know what a VLOOKUP was. And I definitely was not familiar with statistical analysis, which we did a lot of at EMEC.

And to be honest, I had no fucking idea what we actually did as a company until I was no longer working there, if this says anything at all. But I did get to assist on measuring the success of one project in particular that changed the course of my life and my career. At the time it was called iPLANT and it was a $50 million National Science Foundation funded project. It was a collaboration between biologists, computer scientists and educators.

And my job was to interview these people called bioinformaticians, which were biologists, computer scientists, hybrids. And I asked them all sorts of questions, mostly work related, but also a lot of questions about myself. I was looking for insight and guidance on my life and my career. I told them that I was interested in neuroscience, but that getting a PhD as in getting into a program was nearly impossible considering I have an undergrad in philosophy and

Marie Groover (11:43.217)

terrible GPA by the way and anything that wasn't philosophy so every single one of them looked at me and said no problem they told me to learn a programming language they said if I learned technology I could work in any field that I wanted to and they were smart people they all had PhDs and in fact there were computer scientists working on genetics and I was like this makes total sense okay yes

And I have to add that up until this point in my life, I had never, and I mean never, taken a computer class. I mentioned that. I didn't even know Excel, right? I didn't see a reason for it. I didn't see a reason for taking a computer class until I did. And then when I did, when I understood why technology was important and how I could use it to solve problems for myself and others, I went all in. So I started coding. How?

good old Google. I started with Python because that's what the bioinformaticians used, because I wanted to stay close to the sciences. Barbara wrote a letter of recommendation for me and after some work, I tested into a master's program for computer science. Now I mentioned that I wasn't great at my first job. So I have to say that when there was a government sequester and funds got tight, I was the one to let go at the office. There were six of us.

now down to five. So I moved to Atlanta to follow a boy and in search of opportunity. I needed to pay my way through my master's as much as possible because I already had student debt. And so I turned to an online approach to my master's program. I got a job as a bartender. I cycled through some office jobs. And then I found myself in a health technology firm working customer support. Within two months, I was promoted to a data analyst role because there was a need and the data analysis team sat

between our users and our developers. And I was working on a master's in computer science, so I was the perfect translator between the two. I ended up automating the data that I was responsible for, basically cleaning and coding a bunch of data. And I got to help manage the backlog of development. It wasn't glamorous, but it felt like I was making progress on my goals. I knew that in a year, I would apply for my PhD or for PhD candidacy in neuroscience.

Marie Groover (14:06.463)

hoping to be the computational one, hoping to be accepted in a non-traditional route. Now I want to mention my time in Atlanta for two full years. This is what it looked like. I woke up at 5 a.m. I drove to the gym. I worked out. I showered. I dressed. I walked to the office. I was logged in by 7 45 or eight at the latest, worked until five or five thirty, commuted home, called my parents on my drive home, got home, went.

walking or running with my dog, cooked dinner, then I would eat while studying and I would work on my master's degree from 7 p.m. to roughly midnight every single day for two full years. I took the weekends mostly off except for school deadlines or when I struggled solving a developer problem, which was a lot because I was not made for coding. But this two years of grinding, this is the perfect representation of the Eight of Pentacles. I was heads down

working hard, holding a higher level dream and vision in my heart. And I knew that I was making progress day in and day out. And that's what kept me going. I moved from the health technology firm to a tech startup. So I was making $32,000 a year to $38,000 a year. This is important because I remember calling my dad. was so excited about my raise. And I said, in five years, I'm going to be making $100,000 a year. I don't know where I got this notion because

I totally was planning on being in a PhD program at this point, but something in me just felt it. It felt it enough that I claimed it out loud. Fast forward a little bit, October of 2014, like two months after I started at the tech startup, I get an email. It was a recruiter at Microsoft. The email read, we think you would be a great fit for one of our roles. Change in frequency. It was a high priestess moment. It was an invitation. And I said, yes.

Totally thought it was a scam. But I replied and I kept replying. And then suddenly I'm being flown out to Fargo, North Dakota, seemingly very random, but actually not for interviews. And then I have a job offer for the following July. I was literally mid application process for my PhD, but I took the job at Microsoft. I never in my life expected to work for Microsoft, let alone be recruited by Microsoft, never. And yet there I was, by the way.

Marie Groover (16:32.139)

I don't think I'm legally allowed to mention my exact starting salary, but it was a little under $20,000 less than my $100,000 goal. Less than one year after that phone call to my dad, by the way. So fast forward to the end of my very first year at Microsoft. It was a difficult year of long days, some tears, stretching myself beyond where I thought I could go, believing in myself beyond what I thought was possible, fighting myself, pushing myself, hating it, loving it.

failing a thousand times and recovering over and over and over again. I ended my first year with a promotion, with a raise and an annual bonus that at the age of 26 allowed me to call my dad and say, I made my first hundred thousand dollars. A little bit more than that actually. I relaxed into my life a little bit. I got a little lost and a little confused and was really unhappy for a while for no reason.

I found myself over and over again and I had everything that I wanted or everything that I thought I had worked for and wanted. Everything that people work their entire lives for. A quantum leap of sorts happened and I unraveled. I was still working but I wasn't working toward anything anymore. I had no purpose. Existential crisis after existential crisis ensued. I hired a coach hoping that she would give me permission to quit my job. Instead she told me that

And this is Yana Robinson, by the way, if anyone's looking for an epic truth dropping queen to work with, her name is Yana Robinson. But she told me that building a business is like starting a fire in the cold, wet forest. It takes effort to get it started. And once it started, it takes constant attention before the fire can become self-sustaining. Don't quit your job, she said. Let's focus on you. And so we did.

And for the first time in my life, I was able to articulate my purpose, why I was here and who the fuck I was, what I was here to do and why it was important and all of the infinite ways that I could work and make money while fueling myself and my movement, while fueling my mission. I could move and work from within instead of seeking myself from outside of me, like the money I made or the job I worked or the house I lived in or the number of trips I took a year or

Marie Groover (18:56.639)

the yoga that I taught. And then I unraveled again. I found out that I had cancerous cells in my uterus and I went on a hiatus of sorts. I made a silent vow to myself because life is short, to stop making plans, to stop reaching for the thing, to stop saying yes when I didn't know what yes felt like, to let go of all of my goals and all of my expectations and all of the ways that

I distracted myself through accomplishments, through travel, through new experiences. You see.

we can become distracted even in the pursuit of self, even in the pursuit of growth. That's what I learned by the way. So I let it all go and I showed up only in what I wanted to on a day-to-day basis as I felt like it. What that looked like was surfing every single morning and every single time there was a wave because surfing was always a full body yes for me.

It meant renting out the house that I had just bought and moving into a shoebox apartment with mold and inches of sand on the floor to live with my boyfriend on the beach. It meant buying a van and traveling across the country to surf and snowboard during a pandemic. It meant going to Nicaragua on the off season to dip my toes in warm water and longboard over reef. It meant writing only when I felt like writing and sharing only what moved me.

but mostly it was a lot of surfing and zero explaining to anyone what I was up to. It felt spacious and open and free. And then after creating all this space in my once busy and over-consumed life, I had an astrology reading. Merida, the astrologer, she asked me, Marie, you have psychic medium all over your chart. What are you doing with this? And I said,

Marie Groover (21:00.113)

Well, nothing. But I could feel the fire in my solar plexus ignite. I knew that I saw fairies and ghosts and unexplainable things as a kid. I knew that when I wrote poems, I was actually channeling. It was never coming from me. She said, do you have a deck, a tarot deck? I said, no, I've been waiting my entire life for someone to gift one to me. Because when it comes to the occult, don't you have to be invited?

Don't you have to be a little weird and dark and different? She said, Marie, consider this your gift. Go buy yourself a deck. So I did. And I started reading the Akashic records too. And I realized that I had been reading them my entire life. And I was so enthralled that I started reading for other people and working with a coach and following the yes in my gut when the idea for the corporate psychic dropped into my being. This was a year ago, by the way.

One year, I told myself that this was just a fun side project and the reality of building a business while working in nine to five became my existence. And suddenly all of the things in my life that I had been doing that I had been drawn to, that I spent days or months or years devoted to at some point in my life, they all fused together and it made sense. I said this to my current coach the other day. I know I am really in my power, not

when I'm in a category like tarot reader or business manager or surfer or writer, but when I'm in all of it, when I am all of me, when I'm working with people and I can guide them through business and beyond, because there's so much beyond. But I've been working in all of it for so long and it's a beautiful thing to step fully into yourself when you step into your work. And this is the result of the Eight of Pentacles plus the High Priestess over a decade of time.

This is what happens when you hear the whisper of your intuition and you follow it without expectation, without outcome, without results in your mind. And sometimes you'll know them in advance. You'll catch glimpses of what's possible or what's attainable, but seemingly impossible in the moment. And you'll see things out loud like in five years, I'm going to be making a hundred thousand dollars, but then you'll actually be making it in less than two. And maybe you'll even say things like, this is going to be a seven figure business. This work will change the world.

Marie Groover (23:28.123)

And if you're not me, you might think it's crazy or improbable. But when your actions are aligned with your intuition, with what you feel deeply in your gut, your heart, your soul, nothing is impossible. I can promise you that. And there are hundreds of stories far exceeding the brilliance of this one. Go find them. Listen to them. Allow yourself to be inspired.

See yourself in your power and your greatness and your brilliance in each one of the stories you hear. And then get to work. Hold your highest level vision in your heart and then take whatever steps you know in your gut you need to take. There are no shortcuts to the life of your dreams, but there are quantum leaps, collapse timelines, possibilities that you have never imagined available to you when you show up in your work. The story never makes sense when you're in it.

So get out of it and get into your work. And that's what the eight of Pentacles and the high priestess call for this month or whatever time you're listening, because I don't believe that you're coincidentally listening. I believe that you're listening right here, right now for a reason. And I hope that this is the seed that moves you in your mission. This is the seed that enables you to trust that everything will come together for you and that it will be way bigger and better than you could have ever imagined.

if you just let it.

Marie Groover (25:00.017)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom, rate the show, reach out with questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic and I would love for you to join our community for courses, containers, discounts, and live events. It's called TCP Community and Courses and you can find it at

community.thecorppsychic.com. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. I would love to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode right here. I'm honoring you and with gratitude. Good day.

Episode 11. Awakening the Soul of Business: Why Authentic People Create Authentic Companies

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.502)

Welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover, of The Corporate Psychic. This episode is a slight continuation of episode 10, focused this time on awakening the soul of individuals in order to awaken the soul of businesses and corporations.

Marie Groover (00:25.046)

Okay, so last episode, I talked or I started to talk about the phrase business is business and some of the ways that we have normalized unethical practices in business or in corporate through our language and the ways that we communicate. I gave a couple examples at the individual level of how we do this as well, specifically humans who are quote good, great or kind people. But when it comes to work or business, their operating model shifts or transforms into

less than kind or less than what we would traditionally define as good, where in business transactions, the word good moves from meaning ethically sound and virtuous to referring to a job well done. And just the sliding scale of ethical and job well done. What I mean is you might have a really good friend who is a really good person at heart who does a lot of good things for their community and is also really good at their job.

which sometimes requires slightly unethical behavior or normalization of business practices that are not in the most favor of them being themselves or of them being human. But you and all your friends write it off because it's just business. Or worse, you encourage less than ethical or authentic behavior when it comes to business practices to protect yourself or others you know because it's business and business is business after all.

Y'all with me? The reason I'm talking about this on such an individual and personal level is to remind you that humans are behind businesses and that it is actually our responsibility to work ethically and authentically whether we work for someone or whether we own, founded, or run a business at the highest levels. But it's easier said than done. Partially.

because we as a people have normalized business practices to be separate from human practices and partially because we have actually separated human beings from business itself. And I'll be the first to tell you that you are not your business, you are not your job, you are not your job title. And I do agree that there is and needs to be a separation between business and person. However, not

Marie Groover (02:46.424)

to dehumanize businesses and business practices, which is traditionally why we do this, by the way. In fact, there needs to be a separation in business and person in an honoring of each, in an honoring of the business and of the person. Why? Well, I believe that businesses are like babies and that they have souls and that their souls come to us as ideas.

And when we run with them and create businesses that become multimillion dollar corporations, they are at their core, a soul that should be honored, recognized and co-created with and on behalf of. If you don't believe in souls, that's okay. You don't have to. A business before it was a multimillion dollar corporation was at one time an idea. It was a non-real, non-material, non-tangible and existed only in someone's or maybe multiple someone's mind.

just like a house or a building, which at some point was also not material, not tangible, not yet real and existed first in someone's mind or heart. Imagination, we might even say. Just like a baby, which was also at some point non-material, non-tangible, non-existent in reality until it was. And depending on what you believe, even when a baby first comes into existence, conception, it is still not always considered a fully formed being until it is. My point is that

You don't have to believe in souls to see that for something to come into existence, it has to start from seemingly nothing and then be built and brought together by something. A baby has parents, a house has builders and designers, and then one day owners, a business has a founder. Then it has employees, sometimes a board of directors, sometimes an entire hierarchy of humans who work on behalf of a materialized something that at one point was nothing. A business in and of itself is not bad.

It is not a soul sucking monster. It does not eat authenticity in lives and hearts and desires and dreams for breakfast. It just is. And it is mostly formed and shaped and built by the people who mold it. No matter how low you are in the ranks of a business, if you work for one, you are contributing to its life, to the way it is, to the way it grows, and to the way it is perceived. Why is that important? Because

Marie Groover (05:00.876)

If we want to awaken the soul in business, as is the title of this episode, then we must first awaken the soul in the people of the business. So how do we do that? Super simple. We allow people to be, to know, to express and to function as their full, most authentic selves. Like really, it is that simple. But you see, over time,

We have built systematic processes and norms in and around businesses, likely with good intentions and heart at the beginning, that disable individuals from being individuals. And then we normalized it. And then we talk about inclusive culture and authenticity and mindset, but we don't honor it fully by coming out fully as ourselves. We talk about safety to express, but we ourselves don't express, which makes other people not safe to express.

at all levels, by the way, at the leadership level, at the consumer level, at the frontline level, at the mid-management level, at the individual watching and criticizing level, everywhere. It's not just a part of business, but it's deeply rooted in human beings and human desire to belong. Businesses don't do bad things, people do. And then we blame the business or the system or the process, but it starts with us. It all and always starts with us.

You wanna see the change, you have to be the change. Gandhi said that, not exactly like that. But there are some prerequisites to be the change. It takes courage, it takes depth of knowing oneself. It takes trust in self. It takes the desire that is greater than the risk for us to really grow and stretch ourselves and also to fully step into ourselves. And that's also what it takes in business. It takes human beings, you.

stepping into the fullness of who you are, embodying your authentic expression and your values while doing your work or doing your job. And then when a situation arises where you are seemingly being asked to compromise yourself for your values, you choose yourself. And I know that a lot of you are pushing back in your minds right now thinking things like, but if I do that, I'll get fired. Or if you're a leader or an exact thinking something like, not only will I get fired, but what will my people think of me? What will the public think of me?

Marie Groover (07:22.86)

Or if you're a business owner and influencer, you might think I'll lose business. I'll lose followers. I have to do things X, Y, Z way because that's the way it is. We are constantly conforming to the system or the society or the process or the way things are around us. And so the cycle continues, but it doesn't have to. I started TCP in June of 2021.

I literally read cards for my own business to help me decide and dictate how I did things, as in what services I offered, who I partnered with and how, when to hire my first person, when to get help. And while I was reading for my business, I also made decisions for my own authentic being. I didn't first consider myself a business owner acting on behalf of a business. I considered myself Marie and Marie was deepening her...

tarot knowledge, deepening her work in tarot and in readings and in the spiritual space. So of course, I took the deepening that I was doing for myself and put it onto my business because it felt very authentic and it served me, it still serves me. And then I hired my first employee in November. We had already done a find your purpose session or find your purpose work together, which is now a thing that I like to do with everyone that works for me.

So I gifted her with an astrology reading from Earthling Astrology. Meredith is epic, by the way, if you're ever looking for a reading. And I talked to her, Tegan, about TCP's consults with astrology. And I was telling her just how I like to run things and what I like to do and how I like to talk to Meredith or the cards about choices that I'm making. And she said, it's so cool to see that you run your business exactly the way you run your life, that you run your business exactly the way you are perceived.

publicly exactly the way that you would tell other people to. And I was like, of course I do. How else would I do this? But the truth is, we don't. We don't run our businesses or go to our work or our jobs the way that we are, the way that we would do everything. We conform ourselves to the roles we think we're playing in life and in business. I did this when I first started at Microsoft and I wasn't happy.

Marie Groover (09:39.19)

But then I learned who I was on a deep level and I started expressing more and more of that person at work. Not in a let me tell all my coworkers about me or my beliefs kind of way. I highly doubt actually that any of my coworkers know any of my beliefs on a personal level. But more of I'm going to show up fully in myself in every moment that I'm logged in kind of way. And I'm not gonna lie and say I'm sick when I'm actually surfing kind of way.

in a I'm logged in so I'm actually going to do my work kind of way. In a I'm going to live and work within my values kind of way, which meant not lying about missing work to surf. It also meant speaking truth to power sometimes and speaking up when my heart didn't feel right about something, which wasn't every day, by the way, but it felt really big and challenging when it did happen. But you know what happened in my authentic being and expression at work?

My teams came alive. People were more engaged. We had deeper discussions and conversations, not just about work, but also about life. People felt more free and safe to express themselves. And then they did express themselves. And then you know what else happened? We got more done because we could be real with each other. We were safe. If we want to awaken the soul in business,

We need to awaken the soul in ourselves. We have to awaken the souls in others by being ourselves and living our values. Not because anything outside of us is in our control, but because we are the only thing we can control. And in that, we have the power to change everything around us without any control. Ask yourself this, what makes you expand or contract in the presence of others?

For me, I expand when I sense that someone sees and accepts me and loves me exactly the way that I am. I contract when I feel threatened or unheard or misunderstood. This is true at work or at home or at a coffee shop with a stranger. And I want people to expand in my presence at work, at home or at a coffee shop with a stranger. So I do everything that I can that feels in alignment with myself.

Marie Groover (12:03.82)

to allow people to expand. When people expand, so does their work, so does the business they're working for, so does their business, and so does their life. How do we awaken the soul of business and corporation? We allow people to be people. We allow people to know who they are, to express and to function as their fullest, most authentic selves. How are you doing that today?

If you'd like some help in your work or business in inspiring people into authenticity and allowing people to be so that your business can be and thrive and grow and expansion, reach out. This is totally in my job description at TCP and it's a joy to support you in this way.

Marie Groover (12:58.348)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9 to 5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom, rate the show, and reach out with questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic, and I would love for you to join our community for courses, containers, discounts, and live events. It's called TCP Community and Courses.

and you can find it at community.thecorppsychic.com. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. I would love to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode right here. I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day.

Episode 10. Corporate Soul Sucking Is a Myth: How to Reclaim Your Power at Work

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:05.219)

Welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover, of The Corporate Psychic. Today we are going to talk about the myth of corporate soul sucking. Trigger warning. To say that corporations are sucking the souls out of human beings is not exactly true. It's taking the responsibility for the state of the world and the state of business out of the human hand. And today I want to invite that responsibility back in with you.

Businesses have souls. I repeat, businesses have souls. When I started TCP, I knew that the word corporate in the corporate psychic would be triggering to many individuals in the spiritual community. When I started sharing content, I was giving a lot of free readings and people in the spiritual space were really forgiving with my business name, but...

I did get a lot of response on my work related or nine to five content. I remember one conversation of many, by the way, fairly specifically. Someone asked me what other kind of work I do. I said, I work for Microsoft as a business manager. I had been working at Microsoft for six years at that point. And I mentioned my tenure plus the fact that I had been in and out of technical roles for 10 years at that point in the corporate space in general.

They then asked me if working in the space was making me sick, like physically ill sick, quoting that they found that people they had met over the years who work in corporate have health issues from the corporate environment. I responded, actually, no, I love my job. Sometimes it's too much, but usually it's me taking on too much, not my work piling on too much. And the team, my team, the people that I work with, they're probably why and how I'm still here.

Marie Groover (02:04.566)

I did add the disclaimer that I have it really good where I work and I do have it really good. And I know and understand that no two businesses and corporations are the same. But the conversation went on where it was acknowledged that many big businesses and corporations will put the bottom line financially over human rights and environmental concern. I am absolutely not here to combat that. But when I am here to challenge

is the failure to take human responsibility in the corporate world and work. It's as if businesses and corporations themselves, without human control or dictation, are responsible for the state of poor ethical business practices leading to unhappy humans and bad environmental conditions. Worse, it's very common to excuse unethical behavior by labeling it with, it's just business, or business is business.

And I'm not talking just at the corporate level. I'm talking about individuals. have friends who are really great people, like really great people, but who, if and when you try to do business with them, a different and acceptable way of interacting becomes okay. And I follow spiritual business coaches online, feminine empowerment, leadership coaches, and a lot of soulpreneurs on Instagram. All of these people who claim to teach me or you how to lead from something other than KPI strategy in the bottom line.

but in their reels and in their content, they'll talk about this feminine body of leadership and then they'll add, quote, but business is business and I'll teach you how to build yours. But what does that mean? Business is business. It's a common misconception of what it means to be, to have or run a business. And it's become far too common of a phrase to excuse things that are maybe not the most ethical practice or maybe not how

a normal human would interact. But here's what I think and believe based on my own experience. You can take it or leave it. First, not all businesses or corporations are bad. Actually, very few of them are. Also, businesses don't suck souls. Corporations don't suck souls. People do. Processes do. Policies do. Conformity does. And businesses themselves have souls.

Marie Groover (04:30.359)

Think of them like children or pets or plants or animals, things that you can experience the essence of, that you can empathize with when you look into their eyes, not that you can always see the eyes of business, but things that you can watch communicate with each other, animals, plants, again, who aren't able to speak English directly at you. Businesses do have souls. They are an energy each and of their own. I know this because I talk to TCPs all the time.

I talk to other people's businesses all the time. I know this because I work within the Akashic Records and I'm able to access the blueprint of businesses. And I can tell you that like us, they have lived and reincarnated over lifetimes. I know it sounds crazy, especially for my corporate listeners out there. And it's okay. You can let this one go if it's too much for you. No big deal. It doesn't change the bottom line here. Regardless, a business and the human running the business, they are indeed separate entities. But a business itself,

so incorporated business name building products, not going to suck your soul. The person leading it, the people attempting to be in control of it, the frontline employees who conform to the rules or regulations or processes that don't sit well in their bodies and beings, these are the things that suck souls. Saying something like business is business or my job is sucking the life out of me, it's giving away your power and it's not taking responsibility for your life or your actions.

If you're in a job or a relationship or a life situation where something doesn't feel right in your being and you continue to choose to show up without investigating what doesn't feel right or why it doesn't feel right and you do nothing about it, that will eat you alive. Not your relationship, not your partner, not your boss, not the company that you work for. It's the conflict in your heart that you feel.

when you know you're doing something that doesn't serve you. But then you betray yourself and you're knowing and you do it anyways, over and over and over and over again. That will suck your soul away. And I've been there. I've been in relationships that I knew were not serving me, but I chose not to leave. And I wanted so badly to be the victim. And I've been in jobs at companies whose values did not align with mine. And it is so easy.

Marie Groover (06:52.748)

It was so acceptable for me to say my job is sucking the life out of me. I hate it here, but I need to pay my bills. So I'm going to suck it up. I remember actually starting a job in Atlanta and looking around the office. I was chatting with my new peers and I thought to myself, I don't want to be like any of these people, but I was working on my master's degree. I needed to pay for it. I needed to live. I knew that this was temporary.

It was a means to make money while studying and moving in the direction where I wanted my life to move. And I needed this for my resume. Have you ever said this to yourself? Yeah. So I sucked it up. I thought I'll just put my head down. I'll just do the work and I'll do it well. I will see all the silver linings and I will leave when the right opportunity comes when I'm done with my degree. And for the most part, I did do this. I got a lot of amazing experience and learnings from this job.

I got an offer from Microsoft a little over a year later, actually. On paper, everything is great, right? But the truth is, and the truth was, I was so internally conflicted that about nine months in, I needed to switch to a part-time position. Not because I truly needed more time for studying, but because I saw how I was being influenced and shaped by what was around me. And shortly after I quit, because I couldn't reconcile it in my body anymore.

So I moved to a tech startup that was amazing, but it also didn't work for me. And I left that too. If you ever walk into a room and think to yourself, I don't wanna be like any of these people, get out of the room because it's not their fault if you end up like them. And if you stick around for long enough, you will end up like them. It's far too easy to play the victim.

far easier to do that than it is to say no to something that doesn't feel 100 % to you. So do yourself a favor and say no as soon as you can because it only gets even harder the longer you stay in a situation that isn't working for you. Now, that's just one part of what it looks like to take responsibility for yourself. That's also the one that most of you, especially my spiritual peeps, will resonate with. It's the one that helps shape the narrative of corporations suck, leave them, get out.

Marie Groover (09:11.146)

get out of a bad situation. But I also want to share this story. July 6th, 2015. It was my very first day at Microsoft and I had no fucking idea if I belonged or what my job was going to be or if I knew enough to do my job or do it well or if I would even like my job or the people or the environment. What I did know is that I was making three times more than I was at the tech company in Atlanta and that my benefits were like nothing I had ever experienced before.

For the first 23 years of my life, by the way, I didn't have health insurance. When I got my first job, I had to pay for my health insurance. When I started at Microsoft, health insurance was one, just one of the amazing, totally paid for benefits that I got just by being there. So while I had no idea if Microsoft was gonna work for me, I was pretty freaking positive that I was going to make it work for me.

But you know the truth in the story? I was actually really unhappy, really confused, and really lost for my first two to three years at Microsoft. I had days that I loved and appreciated my job, and I had days that I was like, what the hell am I doing here? Who am I? What should I be doing with my life? Where am I going? How did I get here? I don't want this. And you know what I did?

I would look at my student loan debt. It was $88,000 by the way. And that would motivate me to show up because I needed to pay for my student loans. And I did. I showed up. I showed up and I showed up and I showed up. Six months in, I was almost like, fuck this amount. I don't know what I'm doing. And I didn't want to be there. I thought I didn't want to be there. But then I watched this internal series that we had where people from outside of the company, outside of our industry entirely.

would come in and talk to us and tell us their stories. And I don't remember who the speaker was, but she was a woman. And she said something that she says to a lot of university students. She said, don't worry about your degree. Don't get lost in the existential crisis of figuring out what you want. Figure out who you want to be and use every single resource at your fingertips within this college to get you there. And I kind of thought about that and applied it to the resources that I have.

Marie Groover (11:31.212)

accessible to me at Microsoft and it hit me that I didn't need to quit my job to be the person I wanted to be. I could just use Microsoft to help develop me into the person I wanted to be. I say this because we have speakers like this woman who I could take advantage of and learn from for free. Mentors, managers, role models, resources that I could leverage, trainings. There are so many really cool trainings at my job. And they're there for a reason, by the way. So I started to dig in.

And I did my day job. And when I couldn't motivate myself, I looked at my student loans. When that didn't motivate me, I turned on someone's story to success. I listened as people talked about their passions and their paths and what they learned, and I soaked it in. And sometimes I was still unhappy because I didn't exactly know who I was yet. This is a cross roles, by the way. My first three years at Microsoft, I was on three different teams doing three different jobs.

And I was convinced that I needed to find the right role or the right team to make me happy. And then one day, three to four years in, I was in a role that I loved, new role, and I loved it, but I was still not quite satisfied. And I was still debating on quitting or staying. I had everything. I had money, flexible schedule. I traveled all the time, traveled where I wanted to travel all the time. I taught yoga on the side for fun.

I surfed whenever I wanted to. I was paying my student loans down. I had a nice car, a big house, promotions. I was doing work that I thought was really interesting. Every single thing that I wanted, I could check off my list. And I was still not happy. And let me tell you, I studied philosophy in college. I taught yoga on the side. I did numerous teacher trainings, yoga teacher trainings. I knew and did all the mind tricks to make myself content.

I practice gratitude, affirmations were my go-to, I had little Post-its on my mirror, and I want to let you in on a secret. Gratitude and affirmations, they're not the secret to your success. They don't work. They're not going to make you happy. You're not going to affirm yourself into happiness, fulfillment, self-love, self-realization. I mean, maybe you will, but my guess is that you'll still feel like something's missing. And if you're working a nine to five like me, you're probably going to say something like,

Marie Groover (13:54.848)

My job is sucking the life out of me. It must be my job because that's what we hear from everyone. It's so common, right? That's what we've been trained to believe because we buy into the story of quitting your job in order to build your dream life because quote, business is bad. But I'll remind you again, businesses don't suck souls. People do, processes do, policies do, conformity does. You do. When you step into suffering that exists in the conflict of doing something that doesn't feel right,

And then continue to do it anyways. And y'all, my job didn't not feel right. I was awake enough to realize that I was the one that didn't feel right. But even then, it was so easy to blame my job and I did outwardly, I blamed the crap out of my job. But eventually, I didn't want to feel that way anymore because no matter how normal a feeling is, it's really about whether you want to feel it or not, right? If you want to continue to feel it or not, do you do something or not?

totally fine to be unhappy at work, but do you want to be unhappy at work? I didn't, so I hired a coach. First time ever hiring a coach, by the way. And I was hoping more than anything that she would give me permission to leave my job. I was really hoping that she would tell me to quit and lean into the work that I wanted to lean into and that it would all work out. But she didn't do that. She told me something that I knew very well from my yoga practice. She said,

how we do one thing is how we do all things. And instead of working together on building a business so that I could quit my job, we worked together on me. And for the first time in my 26 years, I was able to articulate who I was and what I was here to do. And in that, I could separate myself finally from the stories that I told about myself. And I could separate myself from my decisions and the things that I wanted to do. And holy motherfucking shit.

My entire life changed. Not overnight, but...

Marie Groover (15:56.948)

I can tell you this. I do love my job at Microsoft. I do love the work that I do. And I am completely separate from it. I love my life and my lifestyle and all the things that come from it. And I'm completely separate from those things too. Everything that exists in my life right now today is because I choose for it to be present. My job, my home, my family, my people, my work.

And I am fulfilled on a level that I did not know was possible. I feel totally connected and rooted in my soul. I am happy. I am healthy. I laugh every single day. And I work a nine to five. My job never changed. I'm still at Microsoft. I didn't quit. And it was never Microsoft or my previous company or any of the previous working situations that were the sole root of my unhappiness and disease and lifelessness. It was me.

not yet knowing who I was. And I'm not the example for every single being I know this. Situations can be shitty. Working environments can be shitty. I've been in them. And you always have a choice. How you do one thing is how you do all things. So pay attention to the voice in your head when you hear it. Say something like, the company you work for is sucking your soul away.

I meant to talk today. I meant to talk about awakening the soul in business, by the way. So we'll save that topic for the next episode where we'll dive more into the souls of businesses and how we can work with them, co-create and build businesses with extraordinary energy results and ethical success because businesses do have souls and businesses in and of themselves are not bad. So it's all really about how we manage them, how we work with them, how we co-create with them, how we build.

the life or the business of our dreams ethically in the way that we would as a human. Because we are humans and how we do one thing is how we do all things. And no matter the situation, we always have a choice. The question is, do you know who you are? Do you know how you do one thing? And do you realize that you have a choice?

Marie Groover (18:17.971)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9 to 5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom, rate the show, and reach out with questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic, and I would love for you to join our community for courses, containers, discounts, and live events. It's called TCP Community and Courses.

and can find it at community.thecorppsychic.com. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. I would love to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode right here. I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day.

Episode 9. You Already Know: Practicing Discernment & Trusting Yourself

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:03.554)

Welcome to episode 9 of the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover, from The Corporate Psychic. This episode blends the psychic and the spiritual with the very human self with our very human beliefs. And coming from a psychic reader herself, it invites you to think for yourself because you already know the answers for which you seek.

Marie Groover (00:34.616)

I should say right upfront that this episode is not actually about trusting or believing in or consulting with the psychic realm. Psychic, by the way, means of the soul, which is of no matter for the content of this discussion. The meat of this discussion, the point, is about thinking and deciding for yourself. It's about self-discernment.

and about how important it is to practice self-dissertment in the navigation of your own life. If you want to be truly in charge of your own life.

So I'm gonna start with a little bit of psychic talk. And if it makes you uncomfortable, please stick around. Because the spirit is not the point, at least not today. So I felt a dilemma last week and I texted a close friend. Her first response was, have you asked the cards? What did they say? And this is a common response from almost anyone who is aware of the type of work that I do.

I do facilitate intuitive readings and it's a large part of my business. I consult on behalf of myself and others with the Akashic Records, with Tarot. I talk to my spirit team on a regular basis. People pay me to talk to their spirit teams. I listen to and I feel out energy and I translate that to the human form. And this is for a part of my living. And also because it's really fun. I'm really into it and...

I'm always surprised by what I find or how I'm able to validate another human being. It's not me, by the way. But when my friend asked me, have I asked the cards? I hadn't. It's why I was texting her. And when other people ask me what my guides are saying when I'm in moments of distress or conflict, I have to share with you, oftentimes my guides are silent.

Marie Groover (02:37.323)

I don't go to my cards or astrology or the Akashic records or even God or the universe every time I have a conflict in my heart or a decision to make. I don't pray, AKA speak to spirit, every time I'm in a difficult situation, at least not for answers. I mull it over with myself first. I ask friends and family and people that I trust, mentors, therapists, coaches, neutral, non-judging parties. I talk about it. I feel it out.

Most of the time, I find that I already know the answer that I'm looking for. But in the times I don't, in the times that it's really tough, that's when I bring in my cards or talk to a spiritual advisor. And I think that that's important. I think it's important to practice your own discernment before and after you've consulted spirit, by the way. Otherwise, you're giving up your agency. You're allowing something or someone else to drive your life.

I know people who seek a psychic or a spiritual advisor, even like a pastor or an astrologer or their card deck or the Bible at every single crossroads in their lives, big or small. And I'm not here to say that that's wrong because what is wrong or right? But I am here to say that if you don't discern and decide for yourself, even when you are seeking, even when you are seeking from someone else or something else,

If you don't discern and decide from yourself from deep within, which by the way implies that you need to know yourself from deep within, at least some of the time, but ideally most of the time, you're not actually steering the car of your life. Even if you work with the kind of person who brings you back to yourself. If you have a session with me, you might notice that I will never tell you what to do. I'll never tell you what to believe. I'll never tell you what's right or wrong for you.

And neither will your guides, by the way, your intuition, your guides, the universe will never say you must do this. You have to do this. You should do this. You need to do this. No, this is a key for recognizing your intuition versus your mind or your ego, by the way. And this is a key into who you should or shouldn't listen to if you're talking to a reader. Your soul is in the business of expanding and no matter what you choose, especially in those crossroads situations.

Marie Groover (05:03.607)

You are still going to expand. You are still going to learn the lessons you were meant to. It's just a matter of which way do you want to do it? Do you want to pick the path of least resistance, of ease and flow? Or do you want to pick the slightly pricklier path with some ups and downs along the way? It's up to you. And part of the human experience, I believe, is being in the human experience and navigating life on our own human terms, not from ego, not from pride.

but from a space of knowing that we at all times are fully capable of knowing and moving and choosing the right decision for us from self, because self alone is connected to the divine.

If we look at this from the perspective of a parent and a child, not that divine is like a parent to us, though many philosophies do refer to it this way. But if we look at it from this perspective, if a child is constantly going to parents when they're not sure about something, or when they need something, or when they're in trouble, and parents intervene every single time, and by intervene I mean step in on behalf of child,

not help guide child back to self, not help child think or do, but do for the child, the parent will take away the child's capability to do it on their own. Worse, the parent will take away the child's confidence in self, trust in self, and trust in their own abilities. Now, this doesn't mean that a parent should never step in for a child. And of course, the child should always feel safe to go to their parents in difficult times. But there is a delicate and very important balance in this.

This is also true of spirit, God, the universe, the divine, your parents, society, your education, whatever. To surrender and trust in a great power, being, or energy does not mean sitting on the sidelines and waiting for what we want to come to us. It also does not mean that every time we're faced with a difficult decision we look for and wait for signs from the universe or go see a psychic reader, go talk to

Marie Groover (07:07.101)

Spiritual advisor and obviously talking to someone is always great but like looking for the answer is really the thing that I'm hinting at here

Marie Groover (07:17.129)

Every time we're faced with a difficult decision, we don't look for the answer and then do exactly what we're told or as we interpret. I mean, sometimes we do and sometimes people do. What I'm suggesting is that we don't do that. Parents, they do have the best interest of their children in mind and heart. And yet still sometimes guide children or decide on behalf of children poorly. Especially as the child becomes an adult, they are the single best decision maker for themselves in their own life.

You are the single best decision maker for yourself in your own life. And if you don't believe that fully, ask yourself right now, who or what has made you feel that way? Who or what has taken your power? When did you give it away? And what do they have to gain? Spirit isn't going to give you all the answers. Society isn't going to give you all the answers. Your education also not going to give you all the answers. You are.

You are the only being entity in your life that you know that can give you the answers that you seek. Who are you? Why are you here? Where are you going? What do you want most in this life? If you seek these answers from anything but yourself, you're not living or deciding from an authentic source. You are instead a vessel for someone or something else. And while I do believe

that we're all vessels of the divine. I also believe that we are the best translators for what that means for each of us on our own terms. And this doesn't just translate to the psychic realm. I'm talking about the importance of thinking for yourself, feeling for yourself, deciding for yourself. How many of you share the same political beliefs as your parents? And how many of you understand the core tenets of those political beliefs? And then how many of you have passed those same beliefs down to your children?

without asking why or where they came from without challenging them once. Or how about this one? How many of you have started a yoga practice, found a teacher that you really admire, and then like started sharing the learnings from your teacher or your classes to other people and have adopted them for yourself without first challenging them and understanding where they're coming from? I'm not saying that they're wrong. I'm not saying that your political beliefs are wrong.

Marie Groover (09:33.569)

And how about this one? How many of you believe something, anything, and will not hear or listen to anyone who doesn't believe the same thing as you do? There's a lot of this happening in the US right now, across the world right now. We believe, but where did our beliefs come from? We decide, but where do our decisions come from? And then if you do struggle at all with trusting yourself,

trusting yourself to follow through, feeling confident in yourself, feeling confident in your abilities. You have to ask, did someone else decide for you? Are you believing something that's not coming for yourself? Is that why you're not confident? Is that why you're uncomfortable or maybe don't always trust yourself to follow through or trust yourself to do the right thing or make the right decision? I had a friend who used to challenge every single thing that I said.

They would be like, I don't believe that. I'm going to look it up. And it would be a fact about like cheese or something, something so straightforward, a fact. And they would look it up and it used to infuriate me. I would be like, do you not trust me? Do you not think that I did my research or that I'm smart or that I know anything? And they would be like, no, I don't. But later I realized that it wasn't about me at all.

Knowing something for yourself doesn't come from just believing what you're told. It comes from experiencing it yourself in some way. It comes from the knowing within you, the click of everything coming together. It's the light bulb moment. And I'm not saying question every single thing. I'm not saying don't trust any single person or entity or whatever. I'm just saying practice discernment. Learn how to check in with yourself. Learn how to listen. There's absolutely nothing wrong with seeking help

guidance, support, et cetera. But the answer, the decision, the action, the thing to do, it's best when it comes from you. So seek people who bring out yourself, who mirror to you what's in your heart. Don't give your power away. And if you want to start from within and work your way out, highly recommend. I'm teaching a full seven week course, kicking off on March 2nd. Remember, I will never tell you what to do or believe. Only you can do that.

Marie Groover (11:58.795)

So I will only and always guide you back to yourself. We will hone your intuition and sharpen your critical thinking and challenge everything that you think you know until you are sure of who you find within yourself. Because that is what will enable you to guide yourself into the life and the business and the work and the experience of your wildest dreams. That is what's going to enable you to be confident and feel worthy and know what you're doing and why you're doing it and who you are and why you're here, which is a

game changer for your life, the way you live it. So email hello at thecorppsychic.com with the subject line, your soul's purpose. If you want to know more, no pressure. Who are you? Why are you here? Where are you going? What do you want most in this life? You already know. No, really, you already know.

Marie Groover (12:58.445)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9-5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic and I would love for you to join our community. It's called TCP Community and Courses and you can find it on Mighty Networks. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. I want to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind. I hope to meet again.

maybe in the next episode right here. I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day.

Episode 8. Listening to the Whisper: How to Know You’re on the Right Track (Make Money Being Who You Are, Part 3)

The Inner Briefing Podcast

Listen on Spotify
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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:07.919)

Hello sweet souls and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover of The Corporate Psychic. This episode is part three of Make Money Being Who You Are and as promised, we will talk about how to choose or know you chose the right thing to work on, when you are on the right track, and how to develop the fortitude and support for yourself to forge ahead into the unknown continuously. This episode is a bit of a ramble, but it might be the juiciest

the three parts so far and it gets deep. So let's get to it.

Marie Groover (00:47.022)

When you have a good idea, quite possibly the idea, there will be a small voice inside your being that knows it. You will feel a whisper inside of you that this could be big. If you lean into it, you'll kind of know what to do. You might even get excited and start doing. Before we get ahead of ourselves, this small voice, this whisper, along with the excitement and the fear that arises,

That's how you know that you could be choosing the right thing to work on, the right thing to monetize. And then after the small voice, there will be many loud voices in your head and from the people around you that will say things like, what are you doing? What are you thinking? No, now isn't the time. Here are all the reasons why this won't work. How could this be possible? If it were,

Someone else has probably already done it or is doing it right now. Why you? And so you say something back like, okay, I want to do this, but maybe now isn't the right time. I'm going to plan or I'll wait for X to happen and then I'll know. Then I'll try it. And then you think you're doing the right thing and you'll think that you're making a compromise for yourself and for everyone around you and that it's a win-win, right? Maybe sometimes, but the vast majority of the time wrong.

Dead wrong. There is no compromise on this one. There is no compromise on your dreams. It will never be the right time. Ask anyone who's had a baby. There are people who plan and people who don't plan and regardless of whether you plan or not, you are never fully ready when the baby comes. You have a whole nine months, but still once that tiny human is in this world, it's go time. There's no

Let's wait a couple of weeks for all of the conditions to be right. Let's wait a couple of weeks and see how we're feeling. Rather it's, wait, how do they let me leave the hospital with this thing? I have to keep it alive. I don't know what I'm doing, but time is of the essence. Like let's get this baby to eat or whatever it is, right? And the same is true when an idea comes to us, when a business comes to us, when a plan comes to us, think of your ideas like babies. They do actually have souls as well, by the way.

Marie Groover (03:13.675)

And no matter how ready you are, you aren't, no matter how fruitful the conditions are, you are never going to be fully prepared, but you do anyways. You act anyways and magic happens or you don't or you wait because it isn't a human baby right in front of you. And you think you have the time to sort your life out in advance and you think it's up to you or not how things will come together and who or what your idea will become. thing is the decisions that you don't want to make for yourself.

The ones you push out and hold off, those are the ones that get made for you. And y'all, your dream life doesn't just fall in your lap. 100 % of the time, it doesn't. Even to win the lottery, you have to play it. Nothing is a guarantee except when you don't choose, don't do, and don't show up. Then it's guaranteed not to happen. And I do believe in aligned timing. I believe that everything in my life has happened for me.

has happened in the exact right timing to bring me right where I am today. And I also know that for Align Timing to be on point, I had to show up in every single moment that I chose to show up. I had to meet things where they were. I had to move, to act, to be, to do, in and for my own self. I had to be flexible. This is important. I did not live my life hoping or expecting for Microsoft to recruit me. I leaned

deeply into the things that I was interested in in the moments I was interested in them. I decided to dedicate myself to my master's program in computer science, having no idea, not even having on my radar actually that Microsoft would one day reach out to me. I had an entirely different plan for me. The same is true when I started practicing tarot. When I started intentionally connecting with the Akashic Records, I just did. I didn't do it with TCP in mind, with my business in mind.

I did it for me. I did it because I loved it so much that I couldn't not and I needed people to read for beyond myself because I wanted to do everything I could to learn not for profit, certainly not for a business. I've said this before that I would laugh at you if you told me a year ago today that I would be running a full-blown business on the side of my full-time job, a business with a basis in the spiritual, ethereal realms with the term psychic.

Marie Groover (05:38.837)

in the business name. No fucking way. No fucking way, my friend. I did not see this coming and I didn't even want this. I never wanted to run my own business. I did want to work for myself. Yes. I wanted to become a writer or a speaker. Absolutely. Share my work with the world. Totally. Like a business with a team and support and customers. No, thank you. Corporate customers. No freaking way.

I especially never wanted to be a coach. my God. I literally remember a conversation with two dear friends. It was right after a hot yoga class and we were all jazzed on yoga and life. And one of them was talking about stepping into coaching and I was like, I don't want to do that. It's just not for me. my G and with a psychic spin, I would have barfed in my mouth at this business idea a year ago. And yet four weeks after this discussion with two of my dear friends, TCP was birthed like,

This friend literally went out of town and she came back and I had a business and we were all like, what the fuck? The thing is, when it came to me, I sat with it and realized like, yeah, that makes total sense. Actually, it makes total sense for me to do what I've already been doing, but to charge for it. I was already mentoring people in their careers. I was already reading for people and writing and integrating authentic self plus the woo woo into corporate spaces. And yet.

There were a million reasons not to do this. Plus a million reasons that this wasn't going to work or wasn't the right time or that this business was not for me in that moment. There were a million other things that I could have focused on. I could have reasoned and strategize my way right out of this one, but I heard the voice, the tiny whisper that this would be big. Not big as in a million dollar business, by the way, but big as in big for me.

It was declaring an integration of my full self to the work and to the world in a way that I had never done before. It was a full surrender. And it absolutely was, now that I look back on it, stepping into my writing, into my heart, into sharing my heart with the world, all of my heart uncategorized. And I should add this for all of you, TCP, my business is not my forever. I already know this.

Marie Groover (08:00.693)

I felt deeply when it came to be that it was something that I needed to do as a next step, not something that I needed to do for the rest of my life. This alone could have been a reason to back out. So many people back out of things, relationships especially, when forever isn't a promise. I have no fucking idea where this work will lead or what this is going to be or how my life is going to all come together, but I know that it will.

And I'm going to keep showing up fully in every single moment while I have it because I knew and I know that this is something that I need to do for me. Just like starting this podcast, by the way, I didn't start the spiritual nine to five to market TCP or attract new clients or for any reason other than I knew I needed to. I wanted to. I heard the whisper and I'm glad I listened because this has become one of my greatest joys sharing and expressing the wisdom that comes from my heart.

which I don't do with the corporate psychic, by the way. TCP is about you or your business, your idea, your relationships, whatever. And it's about pulling the wisdom from those places. Not to mention that I get to charge people money for doing what I want to be doing, for spending my time how I would want to be spending my time anyways. What a fucking magical co-creation with the unseen. You get to choose which voice you want to listen to. When an idea comes to you, when there's something you feel in your heart that you want to do,

It's not going to be the loudest voice in the room. It won't. Stop waiting for it to be. When we have an idea, when we feel the spark of inspiration, when we hold onto a deep desire or a dream, that is spirit.

That is your intuition speaking to you. Spirit, God, the universe, your intuition, your gut, your guides, all the things that we don't see, just like your ideas are not able to be seen until they are created. And for all intents and purposes of this episode, these things are all the same. In that, spirit does not yell at you. It doesn't ever tell you what you need or should do. And especially until you hone in on it and get really good at listening, it will almost always be the quietest voice in your being.

Marie Groover (10:10.925)

It's only when you tune into it does it get louder. If any of you out there pray, like for even the people that don't believe in God or prayer or a higher power of the universe or anything spiritual, I know there's still a few of you who have gotten into a pickle and been like, God, I don't know if you exist or not, but if you do, please, can you do this one thing for me? And for those of you that do pray regularly to God, to the universe, to yourself,

those of you who speak into existence out loud the things that you want, have any of you ever gotten an immediate, clear and loud voice response that said, hello, don't worry, I've got you that thing that you want. I'm, I'm working on it right now. Has that ever happened to you loudly? Hell no. If it has, please send me an email right now. I want to hear the story, but I haven't heard of anybody saying this, right?

Stop waiting for the quiet voice to get louder while you simultaneously focus on the loud voices and loudly declare back to the universe that you aren't listening because you are already compromising, already doing or focusing on something else. Waiting for the thing you want to come to happen or come together for you will never ever happen without intention, focus, doing, listening and or co-creating with it.

There is no right time to listen to your ideas. And if that didn't hit home, I'll add this. Tomorrow is not a guarantee. In my intake form for the VA role, I asked everyone what they would do if they were gonna die in six months. If the work you are doing today isn't that, isn't the work that you'd be doing if you were dying, then you probably aren't listening to the little voice. You might be a little off track.

I would even go as far to say that you might not be as happy as you could be. And no, I'm not saying that working at Microsoft would be at the very top of my list if I were going to die in six months. I'm not saying that I wanted anybody to answer in the TCP application, by the way, that working for me would be what they would want to be doing either. If I were going to die in six months, I would maybe or maybe not quit my job. Depends on my need for funds and insurance, right? But.

Marie Groover (12:35.445)

I would keep doing the work that I'm doing right now. I would keep recording podcasts. I would read deeply. I would reflect. I would write my fucking heart out, probably try to get published. Read for people, mentor people, work with people, spend time with loved ones, and ensure that in every single moment of every day, I was actively choosing to be in those moments. Because tomorrow is not a guarantee.

even if you only have six months to live. Okay. So I need to add another layer to this and get back on track. We can't expect our dreams to fall into our laps and we can't expect tomorrow or rely on next month, next year or the right time to also fall into our laps. And yet there is divine timing. like you might be wondering how the F do I build a business based on an idea if even tomorrow isn't a guarantee.

What's the point in showing up today if tomorrow might not be here? And if my business might fail anyways? And this is the million dollar question because there are no guarantees. So what is the point? The point is this, that tiny voice in your head, the ideas that come to you, the feelings, the desires or inclinations that pull very gently at your being. Those are the things that will lead you to who you are and who you are.

will lead you to your mission, your values, your worth, your vision, your confidence, pleasure and fun beyond your wildest dreams. It will lead you to a place of undisputed origin of self, where there is no need for shame, because you are true and authentic and whole. And it's so fucking fun and it feels so fucking good. And no, it's not all butterflies and roses, but hot damn, it is fulfilling. No, we don't have any control over outcomes, so we don't

do for outcomes. We do for ourselves because that's all we have. And when we do this, we not only become whole, but we become magnetic. This is how you manifest. This is how you attract what you most want, by the way. This is how you make your million dollars painting or singing or writing or fucking working at a desk, balancing finances or walking across the Himalayas or engineering power lines or working at Microsoft or any company.

Marie Groover (15:00.587)

or whatever the fuck it is that you want to do wherever you want to be doing it. You do it for yourself because you believe in yourself. You trust yourself to follow through because you are all you have and everything else around you in your life that you think is your safety net could all disappear and fall away any moment. But you, you are with yourself until the end. So how do you make money being yourself? You be yourself. Listen to the small voice.

The one that scares and excites you. And then bring your whole fucking self to whatever it is that you do with the small voice. And if that means starting a business, start your business. Go all in. If that means being a nurse or an engineer or a professor or a priest, go all in. If that means writing a book or taking care of a dying parent, go, write, be there. Fill yourself with gratitude. Don't let yourself get complacent.

And by fucking geese, stop listening to the opinions of other people. Listen to your heart. And when you get bored, when you get scared, when you aren't sure if what you're doing is it anymore, when you've lost motivation, or when you've let the loud voices leak in, keep going. Find the small voice again. Lean into it when you hear it. And live in each small moment. Live fully. Give 100 % of yourself and stop.

doing shit that you don't want to be doing anymore so that you have the space and the time and the fortitude to show up in what you do want to be doing. In the words of Yana Robinson, if it's not a fuck yes, then it's a no. So listen to the yeses, to only the yeses, follow them and do the things that you want to do. When you show up fully and only what you want, momentum will build and it will become easier to trust in the unknown.

It will become easier to trust in yourself in the unknown. And it will be easier to ignore the loud voices in and around you. There is no right time to listen to your heart and follow through with action. There's no right time to do what you want to be doing, to be who you truly are, to live in the small moments with undisputed origin, free of shame, full of confidence, because you are your safest asset.

Marie Groover (17:27.467)

So if you want to make money being yourself, no matter how ready you are, you aren't. Do anyways and allow the magic to happen. If you want specific coaching or to deepen in this conversation, I invite you to join me for monetize your purpose, February 7th, 8th and 9th of 2022, this month right now. It's a three-day masterclass activation. And I would love to hear your ideas, your progress, your fears and your roadblocks.

and to make progress on your dreams together. Email the word monetize to hello at thecorppsychic.com for free registration. When you have a good idea, quite possibly the idea, there will be a small voice inside your being that knows it. Listen to this voice, allow yourself, your true self to come through. You already know what to do. And I can promise you that you won't regret it.

Marie Groover (18:31.061)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9-5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic and I would love for you to join our community. It's called TCP Community and Courses and you can find it on Mighty Networks. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. I want to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind. I hope to meet again.

maybe in the next episode right here. I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day.

Episode 7. Jumping Off the Cliff: How to Begin Monetizing Your Purpose (Make Money Being Who You Are, Part 2)

The Inner Briefing Podcast

Listen on Spotify
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Transcript (RAW):

Marie Groover (00:04.386)

Welcome to episode 7 of the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover of The Corporate Psychic. Today we are continuing our mix of money, desire, purpose, and authentic self. Specifically, we'll talk about where to begin.

Marie Groover (00:25.826)

Last week we talked a little bit about bringing your mind along. This week we're going to talk about jumping off the cliff. But first, a reminder. You are your greatest asset and your safest bet. When you are clear and connected with who you are and what you are capable of, you alone can secure and support yourself. And your purpose, it will never limit you.

Your purpose will only ever expand your opportunities and avenues for enriching your life and monetizing your work. You limit yourself only when you try to conform to an existing pathway, opportunity, or system. You limit yourself when you try to be something that you aren't, when you try to be someone that you aren't. Therefore, our focus is going to be on not conforming, not seeking, and not expecting.

paths, outcomes, or opportunities, including results. Our focus is ultimately going to be on doing. getting 100 % of what you want doesn't come by doing what someone else has or is doing. Jumping off the cliff is surrendering to the creation of your own path, which doesn't look the same for everyone. So let's talk about what that means and what that might feel like.

I think I've said this every week so far, and I have no shame in repeating it here. Getting clear on your purpose, on your big why, on the unchanging parts of you is crucial. What I mean by this is your why, your how, and your what. Simon Sinek coins this as the golden circle. I think that's what he calls it. I'm gonna be talking about this more in my masterclass, Monetize Your Purpose. You're invited, by the way.

And I have an entire seven week container devoted to this. Your why, your how, and your what. This is your navigation system and your North Star for life. And it's not necessary for living authentically or joyfully. I mean, it helps a lot, but it is necessary if you want to monetize your work or finish anything related to your purpose and desires. Super necessary if in monetizing your work, you're building or creating a business. The thing is,

Marie Groover (02:48.054)

It's so easy to skip this part. It's so easy to look outside of ourselves and to ask, what is the world missing? What hasn't been done before? Or what should I focus on? And then follow that up with, how do I do that successfully? And then not follow through with it at all. Like how many of you have thought about something that you think the world needs and then you decided not to work on it because you didn't think that success was likely or because you saw too many barriers?

my god, there's no judgment right now because this was me literally a few years ago for my entire life. I had so many ideas but no conviction, no follow through, no true belief in the ideas on their own. Yeah, that's because there's no conviction without purpose. Your purpose, your why, your North Star, the one that guides you. It's not a guarantee, it's not results, but it's your why. Because you are your guarantee.

When you're connected to this, when you're connected to your why, when you move from this place, the money and the results will come. I promise. Making money being who you are and doing what you want to do, it's not possible by being someone else's version of you or by creating someone else's expectations, needs, or desires. It's by knowing and expressing your own. So to begin, get

on your why. Get clear on who you are on the unchanging parts of yourself. There are parts of you that do not ever change. Do you know them? Connect with them and then understand how you are yourself. Understand the unique characteristics, habits, desires, activities that make you you and then make a list of all the products and services or offerings that you can bring to the world.

that you desire to work on, that you want to exist for yourself, that you want to bring to the world. And connect to those dots. Those are your what's. Connect those dots to your why.

Marie Groover (04:59.34)

I'm here to inspire people to touch the wisdom of their soul. That's my mission. That's my purpose. That's why I'm here. That's why I'm alive. I exist to inspire people to touch the wisdom of their soul. I'm obsessed with wisdom. I live for wisdom. It's one of my top three values. When I discovered my mission statement, I was like, yeah, that is what I'm here to do. And I already do it by

being myself. There's nothing that I need to do or change to be or to fulfill it. I naturally will fulfill it when I allow myself to be who I am. I'm doing it right now. The things that I offer to the world, my what's, are my poetry, my podcast, my writing, my work with TCP. And notice that the corporate psychic is only one way that I bring myself forward into the world.

and it's only one channel for making money and how I bring myself forward to the world. A few years ago, teaching yoga was on this list. It really isn't anymore, and that's okay. What's also on this list is my work at Microsoft. I know how my why is connected to my what at my job. Game changer, by the way. Huge game changer, life changer, career changer, just like happiness factor changer at my nine to five. End surfing.

Serving is totally a product of my truest expression. It's something that I offer the world. I totally count this as a what and no, I don't get paid in the traditional sense, but I get so much more than money when I serve. Plus, have I mentioned that I was recently in the freestyle watch winter commercial, surfing? What you can offer to the world and receive back, even in the form of money, by the way, is infinite.

Your purpose will never limit you. It will only expand your opportunities for bringing your work into the world. And your what's, your services, products, and offerings are allowed to and will change over time. Let them. But this is important. This is huge because you are not your what's. You are not your products or your services. Your purpose

Marie Groover (07:17.93)

Also, not your what's your purpose is not your products your services your offerings. You are not born here To deliver something to someone I was not born here to be or own the corporate psychic. I was not born here To surf as much as I would like to think I was I was born here to inspire people to touch the wisdom of their soul and the number of ways that I'm able to do that and make money is infinite

Your purpose will never limit you. So moving on. So you're clear on your purpose. Step two, before you jump off the cliff and into your life's work and into your purpose, into your full self, doing whatever it is that you feel called to do, serving the people with whatever it is that you feel called to bring to the world, ask yourself what kind of world needs to exist for you to be and do everything that you want.

What kind of world do you want to live in? How do you want to feel, be? How do you want to express yourself? How do you want to show up? And this is important. How can you realize that you embodying who it is that you are fully brings us all one step closer to the world that you imagine and most deeply desire? It's your responsibility in fact to show up and contribute to the building of this world.

No, not by dictating how the world should be itself, not by dictating how we should build the world, but by building the world in being your fullest self. And this is a basic piece of your vision. Key word here, vision. Your vision is what will bring your purpose, your North Star, and your work together. Lots more on this in my masterclass next week, but vision is absolutely key.

Okay, so step three, leap. Just start doing. Don't avoid it, don't go around it, don't take time explaining it or researching it, just freakin' do it. You don't need context, you don't need history, you don't need new skills, you don't need to sharpen old skills to take any classes, to do anything prior. You don't need to do anything other than just doing what you want to do.

Marie Groover (09:45.375)

This is wisdom from Aristotle, by the way. I'm not just making this up. He says this in his Nicomachean Ethics. He says, if you want to be a painter, you paint. You don't need to read about painting. You don't need to become the best at painting. You don't need to know everything about all the colors or all the tools or all the methods. You just need to paint. And if you think what you want to do requires more, because maybe you don't want to be a painter, but you want to do something that seems a little bit more complex, I offer you this from William Osler.

It's one of my favorite quotes. says, he who studies medicine without books, sales an uncharted sea, but he who studies medicine without patients does not go to sea at all. So theory is great, but experience is all that you need. If there is something that you want to do, and if there's something that you want to make money doing, then just start. Go to frequency.

You don't need a degree. You don't need credibility, reputation, brand, a large following. Y'all I closed January at 14.7 K in sales, actually a little bit more than that. And I have 1700 followers on the corporate psychics page, probably less on my personal Instagram page by the way. And I almost guarantee that right now probably only 10 of you are listening to this podcast. You don't need a following. You don't need a strategy.

You don't need to worry about the how. You don't need to worry about who. You don't even need a freaking website immediately. You also don't need to know all the things that you think you need to know. No list, no software, no budget. Let it go. Whatever it is, let it go. The corporate psychic was just a thought in my mind, not even a full year ago. And I went full speed ahead all in months before my website was complete. In fact, by the time my website was built,

I had already delivered over a hundred readings under the name, the corporate psychic. had an amazing website launch because I was already working with people. And actually my site went live in November of 2021, like not that long ago, two, three months ago, which is also when I kicked off and fully filled my first purpose driven group container, your undisputed wisdom. If I had waited for my website to go live, I wouldn't have been able to afford the web development work that I was paying for.

Marie Groover (12:13.291)

If I had waited for my website to go live, who knows where I would be right now not doing this, right? But by the time my site did go live, all the money I spent on TCP or planned to spend on TCP, because I didn't have it, was paid for by itself. In fact, every time I invested in myself or my business, every time I showed up, it has paid for itself monetarily, not even in the value that I got in the service or the coaching or the support or whatever it is that I was reaching for. Monetarily, that money has come back.

Just begin. If you are clear on who you are, the rest will fill itself out. Not just because it did for me, not just because Aristotle says it, not just because William Osler, but because it's true. It doesn't have to be perfect. And yes, you will iterate and yes, things will shift and yes, not everything is going to be what you think it is. And yes, it's really freaking scary. And yes, it takes effort to be who you are, to show up every day, to talk about your work and yes,

Your dreams and goals can feel very far away if you let them. Actually, it's natural. And when you want something, when you start something, it's natural for it to feel even further away than it is. It's kind of like when you start to learn something new, you also realize how little you actually know about that thing and how much more you have to learn, right? This isn't to discourage you. It doesn't need to be discouraging. It's actually just your awareness expanding. It's a shift in perspective.

It doesn't mean that you are truly further away from the thing that you want, just like it doesn't mean that there is actually more information than there was before to learn. Nothing has changed, only your perspective. The way to get around this and away from discouragement is to just start taking steps toward the thing that you want. Yes, it really is that simple. But when you hold yourself back,

because you think you need a plan or a solution or a process or some backend context, whatever, you delay the inevitable momentum and progress that could have been available to you. Remember, jumping off the cliff is a surrender to the creation of your own path. And when you surrender to this creation, the end result is always so much bigger and more beautiful than it would have been had you stayed.

Marie Groover (14:37.245)

in some pre-planned, pre-designed course and strategy that you arbitrarily limited yourself with. Surrender to the creation of your own path. No, you won't have all the answers. You won't ever have all the experience. You are learning as you go, and you're doing things that have never been done before. Give yourself grace and get to work. And by ghee, if you're still not sold on working with me and find your purpose, please come to...

Monetize your purpose. It's a three day masterclass activation on February 7th, eighth and ninth next week at 7 p.m. EST each night. And it's just so much more than I can put into a podcast. Plus it's FaceTime with me directly to ask all the questions that your heart desires. And if you email the word monetize to hello at thecorppsychic.com, you'll get free access. Tell me, the last time you took steps toward your dreams, did you regret it?

I'm willing to guess probably not. But the times that you dismissed your dreams altogether, those times might haunt you still. So do yourself a favor and email me right now. And then get excited for our next episode, which will examine how you know when you chose the right thing to work on. Or we can even examine how to know if you're choosing the right thing to work on, how to know when you're on the right track.

and how to develop the fortitude and the support for yourself to forge ahead into the unknown continuously. Making money being who you are and doing what you want is inevitable if you show up in aligned action and embodied self. So let's keep it going.

Marie Groover (16:24.853)

Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9-5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic and I would love for you to join our community. It's called TCP Community and Courses and you can find it on Mighty Networks. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. I want to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind. I hope to meet again.

maybe in the next episode right here. I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day.