Episode 20. From Corporate to Coaching: Kelly (Anderson) Jackson on Purpose, Shedding, and the Leap Beyond 9-to-5

The Inner Briefing Podcast

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Speaker 2 (00:00.078)

Okay. We are live. So I just want to say thank you so much, Kelly, for being here. I'm so excited for this conversation. I've been so pumped since we first talked. Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me, Marie. It has been such a pleasure getting to know you these last couple of weeks and like have been so excited about this conversation for today. Thank you for having me.

Of course, of course, thank you. Okay, so you know this about me. I like to spotlight the things that, I don't know, maybe we kind of tend to gloss over the things that maybe are a little bit trending, but we have slightly less awareness around, specifically around leaving the nine to five, right? Like this is one of those huge things where I think in our industry, there's a big message of like, just quit your job.

which is totally great and fine, but I really, really loved hearing your story originally because in your case you did quit, but it wasn't like I just quit, right? So can we start there? Can we start with you? Can we start with your story? Can we start with, yeah, your transition out of the nine to five into your business and just how everything transpired.

Yes, yes, I would love to start there. And I think it's important just to kind of like build the context of how I got to that decision, because it really was a multi layered decision. There was a lot of factors involved beyond just my career not speaking to me, there was a lot going on behind the scenes for me personally and spiritually that led to that decision. So, rewinding flashing back my first job out of college, like over 15 years ago was as a recruiter. And

Speaker 1 (01:41.644)

that is really a career that most recruiters will tell you they kind of fall into. And that is exactly how it happened for me is I fell into it and I liked it, met some really great people, built a great skillset, grew through that career over time, made the transition from the agency side into an internal corporate position, worked for a couple of big name consulting firms here in the US and really felt like

Okay, this is it. This is what I'm supposed to be doing, right? Like building this super successful career and, you know, climbing ladder with promotions and salary increases and like, I've got it all, right? But it was just like this little teeny tiny whisper that had always been there. And I, for the longest time, chose to ignore it. And that whisper was, this isn't quite aligned. Like you're meant for something else.

Yes

Speaker 1 (02:41.742)

But I hadn't necessarily developed the skills with myself yet to really like know what to do with that whisper, like how to explore it. I didn't really have a relationship with my intuition for the longest time. And so I just kept putting that whisper to the side, like, meh, like whatever, like this is fine, right? Like I'm in this great career.

And it wasn't until probably about like three or four years ago, 2018 actually, and I'm remembering this because I was just reading through some old journals this week, interestingly enough. And 2018 was really a time where that whisper became louder. And it was showing up in ways where I found myself like coming home from work and numbing out.

with TV and with alcohol and with friends and working out and all the things that helped me disconnect from my career. I was very stressed out, but just kept grinding and kept hustling. And then things started really shifting for me personally in 2019. I went through a really difficult separation with my then husband, which led to a divorce.

I decided to make a job change at the time and join a local consulting firm thinking like, this will fix it. I'll be happier at this company. And so there was just a lot of turmoil going on for me internally at that time. And I kept kind of putting band-aids on it, right? Like thinking that that was gonna fix it. And, you know, ultimately once the pandemic hit and, you know, all of us were stuck in our home.

That was a very isolating time for me, having just gone through the divorce, learning to kind of stand on my own and going through that healing process personally. I realized like, gosh, like I'm not living my most purposeful, fulfilling life right now. And the divorce was one way of shedding that piece of the issue that was getting in the way of me stepping into that life. And then the career was kind of the next thing that came up for review.

Speaker 1 (04:53.582)

So like the universe kept showing me all these big areas of life that were coming up for review in my interpretation. And so went through a pretty deep healing process of, you know, working with spiritual mentors and a coach and, know, early 2021. I remember that first Monday back after the holidays in January, it was like, I opened my laptop and I just, said to myself, this is the year I leap. And I didn't know, I didn't know what, and I didn't know the how.

But I had at least gotten myself to a point in my own awakening and healing process that it was like, I'm building the confidence to know that I will figure it out. And that felt really good because I didn't know how to do that before. And so I avoided it. And so that really set everything in motion. And so I gave myself five or six months to really like be strategic about it, picking the right time to leave.

kind of coming up with somewhat of a rough plan of what I was gonna do next, then we'll get into that. And making sure like from a financial perspective that I was feeling good about that decision. So a lot of it was like a big leap of faith in the universe and sort of like where I knew my soul was meant to go. And some of it was also the strategy piece too. And so I ended up leaving in May, 2021. So it's been almost a year now and like,

I know many say this, but this is so true for me too. Like I have not looked back. It's been such a beautiful shift for me in my life. And I've grown so much just even in the last year since having left.

my gosh. I love this so much. you said so many things that I want to touch on. I like, I was trying to like grab paper and not make any noise. Yeah. So I just love kind of this knowing that you initially started developing that things were not fully in alignment. How has that shifted for you? And like, what would you even say that means? Right? I'm thinking about someone who might be listening to this podcast and

Speaker 2 (06:54.796)

like super resonate with you. And I could even say there are so many parts of your story that I resonate with. Yeah. How do you, how do you sense that? How do you start to sense like this isn't an alignment and then what feels like it is an alignment and how have, how have you kind of, you know, made the movement toward that?

Yeah, that was tough to identify at the time. Like when I was in the thick of it, it was really hard to put my finger on. what is it that feels off about this? I couldn't quite identify it, but now that I've had some distance and separation from it, it's so easy to see now. And, you know, I think a lot of it was the little things. Like when I would wake up in the morning, I was in fight or flight mode immediately of like, what do have to get done today? And am I checking this thing off the list? And did I get that deliverable into

you know, my client and my hiring manager, like it was always this very stressed out response or reaction mode that I was in. And I thought that was normal at the time. Like I thought that that's how you're supposed to feel in your job, right? Cause we always are hustling around and meeting to meeting and getting things in at deadlines. And I thought that that was just how it was supposed to feel.

But like after a while, I just started seeing that manifest and like such, I don't know, like deep pain from like an emotional perspective. I just felt like worn down. I felt drained. I felt unfulfilled. I felt lost. you know, going to bed at night, I was very drained. I didn't feel like, wow, like I can really like put my name on this day and feel good about what I did. And so I had to really look at that closely and be like, is this?

Is this how I want to feel regardless of how I think this is how it should be? Is this how I desire to feel every day? And like that answer was absolutely not. And so I had to get really clear with myself, well, how do I want to feel? And then the inspired action like came from there of just like, are the things that I see myself doing that are much more fulfilling that can still like serve others and have an impact.

Speaker 1 (09:04.238)

which is what led me into the coaching world really. But you can, know, for anyone out there that's listening, that's feeling that disconnect from nine to five, like it's really about getting honest with how do you feel in your body every day? How do you feel in your heart every day? Do you feel like you're living your core values every day with what you're doing? And maybe the answer is yes, but maybe it's not.

This is so good. And I love, I love so much this wisdom of, because it is normal. It is very normalized to wake up and feel like you're in fight or flight mode. can, I almost guarantee the majority of people that I work with even now probably wake up and immediately check their email or think about checking their email, right? Or they're like, Oh my God, I didn't do that thing. And I can, I can resonate with this because there are oftentimes too, where if I don't wake up,

and allow myself the space and capacity to enjoy my morning, I will immediately go into that as well, right? And it's like the moment I log in, I'm like, shit, like there are a thousand things on my list and how am gonna do all of this? And the overwhelm gets so, it's so real and the drainage is so real as well. And so I love this wisdom of asking yourself, is this how I want to feel? Forget about what's normal, about what everyone else feels, but is this what I want?

And what do I want to feel? Would you say, okay, I like, have to go into this now because I think there's such a, there's such a fine line between.

like burnout, full level burnout, and not even that we have to fully distinguish these things from each other, but, also like knowing that, okay, this is it, I have to leave, right? Do you think that there's a difference between the two of just being burnt out or being like, nope, nope, this isn't the right place for me?

Speaker 1 (10:56.396)

Yeah, I think there can be a difference. And I think it takes getting like really, really deeply connected with your intuition to decipher what the difference is. Because I think like, you know, the working world ebbs and flows, you know, for anyone that's in kind of the corporate business world, or even the education system. There's definitely like busy seasons, right? So there are certainly times where maybe you're going to be committed to more hours or bigger projects and

things that require maybe more of you than the norm. And that I think is a different maybe distinguishment than I don't even want to complete the simplest task of my job. Like I don't want to get there on time. I don't want to go to these meetings. I don't even want to send this follow-up email. To me, that's very different than just like, okay, I came off of a busy season, but I'm going to give myself permission to recharge and reconnect with like the

the love and passion that I have for my job versus just like, you know, like what I just said, the smallest thing, feeling like such an unbearable task, which is kind of where I was getting to, to be honest.

I resonate with this so much. I'm trying to hold back. It's so funny. Yeah. And actually as I'm coming upon leaving my career behind and my job behind and my space and corporate behind, actually, there are two things. But one of them, think about this as I'm stepping out, I can feel that more and more and more and more, right? Like I'm like, I don't want to log on when I have to log on. I don't want to do this email. Like the simplest things that normally like take

even no energy, right? Are almost extreme drainers for me, energy-wise, because there's so much resistance to wanting to do them. I'm like, man, I'm trying not to check out, but I'm like, so checking out. Yeah. How did you manage that when you were leaving year nine to five?

Speaker 1 (12:50.35)

Bye!

Speaker 1 (12:55.278)

I was in a similar place to you, Marnie, where I knew I was leaving quite some time before the actual last day. So that last, you know, I'd say month felt really challenging. I'm not gonna lie. I can't say I navigated it perfectly. It was really, really challenging to show up. But what I decided to do was

I decided to just have fun with it. And I shifted my mindset a little bit to say, okay, Kelly, you've been in this game for 15 years and you are ready to embark on a new journey. What can you pull out of this last, however much time it is, months, two months, couple of weeks even, like, what can you pull out of this and have gratitude for? What lessons did you learn in your career that you can take away into this next phase of life?

you know, how can you maybe brighten someone's day in these last couple of weeks? So I tried to just like, have a little bit of fun with it, try to be light and airy with it of, you know, beyond, we all know the negative feelings of it, right? The, way I can't wait to get the heck out of here, but I had spent so much time with that feeling that it was like, that's not useful anymore because I already know there's a deadline coming. I already know there's an exit date. So like, how can I make this a bit more serving and positive and

How can I leave like a mark that resonates with other people?

I love that so much. Just that statement of that's not useful anymore. So what else can I do? What's going to serve me? What's going to serve others? That's so much wisdom there. Yeah. Okay. What else? There was something else. Yeah. then, okay, last thing. And then I want to kind of shift into like, where are you now? But in thinking about your departure from the nine to five space in the corporate space,

Speaker 2 (14:53.494)

You mentioned there was this mix of both strategy and like leap, right? And what I immediately thought was no matter how prepared we are, are we really prepared? So can you talk me through that and just how that felt and how you landed and then even just sharing where you are now.

Yeah, I'm trying to like put myself back in that place of where I was last year. You're never going to be ready to make a big decision. You know, the old saying goes like, if you're waiting to be ready, you're going to wait forever. And I fully wholeheartedly believe that statement. Like ready is a decision, not a feeling. So I at least had to get myself to the place of

I'm ready to be uncomfortable. Like maybe not ready to go into the unknown and feel like amazing about it, but I was ready to just take the first little baby step. And like I said, like it took some time for me to build that connection with myself and with my spirituality, like basically throughout the entire course of 2020 to set myself up for that 2021 decision to leave because

had I not have done that deeper inner work and started really building this like dynamic of trust in the divine and in the universe, that decision never would have come to fruition because I would have been stuck in the fear cycle and I would have been stuck in the belief that I need to hold on to this job for security and safety and financials and all that stuff. So it certainly was this like, all right, I've built enough trust.

not only in myself, but in the laws of the universe that like, if I take this leap of faith and I start exploring something more purposeful, like that will come back to me. And that's a difficult process, you know, especially for someone that has grown up just like only knowing this kind of childhood and societal programming that a lot of us went through, right? So it's a lot of unlearning and unwinding of old beliefs.

Speaker 1 (17:03.726)

to get yourself set up to that point and then really working on embodying the new beliefs. And so I had to do a lot of embodiment around like, I trust what's on the other side of this. It's okay to be uncertain. I trust that I can create safety for myself even when it feels uncomfortable because there has been a lot of discomfort over the last year of unknown, right? Like especially as I'm building my coaching business and I'll talk about that in a sec, but it's not the...

It's not the same feeling of safety and security as your nine to five is, but like learning to be okay with that and giving yourself permission to be okay with that is where the like real fun work is. So yeah, so, know, and after leaving in May, I went through my coach certification program and launched my business towards the end of last year on 11-11. And that has been such

an incredible learning experience for me. I've never been an entrepreneur before. So it's a very different feeling than being an employee and having your schedule structured and rigid and you know exactly what you're supposed to be doing week in and week out, right? And as a new entrepreneur and as a coach building their business, there's a lot of freedom, which is great.

if you know how to manage it, and that's where the learning was for me was, okay, how do I spend my days now? And where am I needed? And like trial and error, what's gonna work? What's not gonna work? So those are a lot of the things I've spent the first couple of months of my business, like really playing around with and trying to have fun with, because it's really easy to get bogged down and be like, this isn't working. You know, like I'm gonna fail at this. The old ego voice comes back.

So that's where the work has been for me is just like playing around with having fun with that freedom of owning your own business and figuring out what works not only for you, but for your clients.

Speaker 2 (19:08.176)

man, I love that. And I love that you mentioned just the discomfort and the unknown. I could like feel my soul pulling to that because I'm about to be in that same place, right? I feel for the past, I don't know, 10 to 12 years I've been in some sort of like full-time secure capacity where I'm gonna get paid every two weeks or at least twice a month, right? And it's a very different feeling than like,

When is, when am I going to get paid again? Like what exactly is going on, right? Am I going to get more clients? Like what, what is going to pay the bills? How do I move and shift things? So I want to hear a little bit about that. How do you, how do you navigate the unknown and how do you let yourself experience and explore and know when to be consistent with something versus when, okay, maybe this isn't working anymore.

Yeah, that's a good question. And I cannot say that I am the expert. I don't think I'll ever be the expert because I think I'm someone who's always learning and always growing. But navigating the discomfort for me has really been about letting it be okay to be uncomfortable, which is really hard because it doesn't feel good in the moment.

you want to get out of it really fast. It's like a yoga pose, right? Like when you're just in that super uncomfortable pose, you're like, me out of here. It's kind of, it's kind of like that same feeling. But like what I continue to learn over time is that like the discomfort is where a lot of the wisdom drops and where a lot of the learning lessons are, even if they're not immediately present right in that moment, like oftentimes it'll come to me very shortly after I move out of that stage of being uncomfortable.

And then I also try to just have fun with the uncomfortable of like, rather than looking at it from a fear lens, which we're trained to do, we're trained to be very fearful and scared of something unknown. I try to like retrain my brain to look at it from wonder and possibility. Like, like I don't know what the next, you know, next amount of months my business looks like. Awesome. What do I get to create?

Speaker 1 (21:29.08)

What do I get to design? Who do I get to serve? Who do I get to connect with? That's a practice though. So like I've had to become very ritualistic with self coaching and self thought work. Every morning I'm like, even on the days I don't want to, every morning though I'm in my journal like brain dumping. What are the thoughts I'm having about myself today? What are the thoughts I'm having about my business today? What are the thoughts I'm having about my clients today?

and really trying to bridge any gaps that there may be of thoughts that are not serving where I want to go, you know, as a coach. So that is gonna be a lifelong practice, which is totally okay. The thoughts will always be there, you know? And it's a matter of just getting in and looking at them and rewiring the ones that you feel like aren't serving you.

Yeah, I love this so much because this is such a, it's a, it's first of all, just so wise. But secondly, such a practical, tangible thing that literally anyone can start doing right now, like in their nine to five, in their business, in their life, in their relationships, just like, what am I even thinking about this? And what do I want to be thinking about this? How do I want to be feeling about this? Where are the gaps?

How can I eliminate those, right? What are the things I'm thinking that are not serving me and how do I, because I feel like, yeah, just becoming aware of that is such a massive thing. And then to have a solid tangible practice of journaling it out every day is so beautiful.

Yeah. I mean, we talk to ourselves all day long. I can't remember what the figure is, but we tell ourselves, you know, some ridiculous amount of thousands of thoughts per day. And so if that's happening, like we have to get really clear on what are those thoughts that we're telling ourselves about ourselves, because that's ultimately going to shape our outcomes in life that we desire. And so like, if, you're seeing that there's an incongruence with where you want to be, what you're visualizing for yourself,

Speaker 1 (23:29.302)

And what those thoughts are like, boom, that's where the work is, is in between there.

so juicy. What else? There was something else I wanted to go into.

Speaker 2 (23:45.634)

Yeah, actually, let's kind of like continue along this path of this transformation, but shift slightly. I would love to hear from you because this has been coming up so much in the community here of how have things shifted in your personal life as you completely transformed your professional life. And specifically, like, I want to talk about relationships and, you know, the relationships, because this is something that comes up so often of...

you know, I'm going through this awakening and now I don't know what to do with my family or no one gets it or I don't know to do with my partner or, you know, there are some friends that I've had for years, but now I can feel this weirdness, right? I would love to hear for you what your experience has been, how it continues to be, how you navigate that, because I think this is such a place of anytime there's love, right? There's conflict. That doesn't have to be, but oftentimes when we're growing, we feel that, right?

Yeah, oh, this is such a good question, Marie, because this is home for me right now, having gone through a pretty deep season of shedding and then shedding all over again. It's continued, especially this past year. And I talked earlier about 2020 just in terms of shedding that marriage, being home and isolated, really kind of getting the message around like what

my career was meant to be and what it was not meant to be. then, you know, ultimately transitioning out of my nine to five shedding that. So it was a lot of shedding all at once of just big things. And what I don't think I was prepared for or realized was that meant shedding a lot of friendships too.

Friendships and social circles that I had been in prior to those big life changes were beautiful and lovely and served their purpose at that time. But as we evolve as human beings, the people around you have one one of two options and that is they evolve with you, which is beautiful, or you evolve away from each other. And that's beautiful and that's okay too.

Speaker 1 (25:57.166)

But that is a sense of grief that I wasn't expecting because I've been through a lot of seasons the last couple of years that have felt very, very lonely because I have always felt like I'm different, you know? And I know a lot of people out there, especially those that listen to your platform, like feel the same way. They feel like, where do I belong? Where do I fit in? And I had to work through that thought of coming to this

place of being okay that it's like, I'm not meant to fit in. But at the same time, I still want a sense of community. I still want a sense of sisterhood. And I'm in the process of building that now. It's not quite where I envision like where a true sisterhood is meant to be. So that's in the works. And to be totally honest, like it's a struggle sometimes. Like there are some days where I feel like, gosh, like I don't have any friends, you know, like that's the story I tell myself. And then there's other days where I feel really good about the connections that I do have.

But yeah, like losing some of those like very long-term friendships is really challenging. And so I think my advice to people out there, if you're going through that transition of whether it's a relationship that you're mourning or friendship, or even your job, like allow that grief to be present and make sure you take time to grieve it. Whether that's just like getting into a ceremony with yourself to like...

close out that chapter of life or to close out that connection. You know, let yourself do that. I just did a burn ceremony last week, actually, for some old feelings of grief and guilt that came up that I thought were healed. And of course, as with the healing process, like sometimes it comes up again when you least expect it. And so I really wanted to like, get my thoughts down on paper and burn that and continue to release it.

Yeah, like it's challenging, but there's also a lot of beauty in it too. mean, I've been able to come into a beautiful sacred union with my King who we were absolutely meant to reconnect in this lifetime and many lifetimes before and after this. so making space for that and working on building our future together has been so incredible and so beautiful. And so there is light on the other side of that.

Speaker 1 (28:21.506)

darkness and that dark season of grief. So it's cyclical, just like most things in life.

Yeah. this is so good. So I love that you tapped into the grief that we feel when we start to outgrow our surroundings, the people, the places, the habits, the cycles, the patterns, right? Cause I think it's all of it. And there's like, I don't know, this is, this is something I've been experiencing oftentimes when we're shedding specifically people, but even like habits and cycles that we go through.

there's a level of comfort that exists, right? And like what we've known for so long and there's a level of comfort that almost keeps us small. And then there's like the comfort that also comes from growing, think, especially when you continue to grow and grow and grow and then so much discomfort with that. And I think because of that, there's this almost teeter tottering that can happen whenever we do have someone in our lives and we're not sure if they should be in our lives anymore. have.

maybe a practice or a family member. And we're not really sure what to do because there are so many almost things on both sides of the list of like, but this person's so great. And they've done all these things for me or I've done all these things for them. And we're so connected in all of these ways. And then there's this complete, again, like unknown of like what happens whenever they're no longer there and how do I work through that? And then all the grief that comes along with that. I think a lot of that, the grief comes from losing that

It's like losing that feeling of comfort, even if it wasn't the safest comfort, even if it wasn't the most expansive place, even if we couldn't be fully vulnerable. And it's like when the grief creeps in, sometimes it's easy to even forget like, man, why wasn't this serving me? Like, why am I letting go of this? So I think that's so beautiful just to your invitation of allowing the grief to come in and to be with it and to be present with it and to...

Speaker 2 (30:14.262)

even like ritualize or ceremony it, have ceremony with it, right? Sit in ceremony together for that alchemization to happen. So for you, I'm curious, how do you, how have you navigated this time of knowing relationships or we could even say thoughts or patterns or cycles, practices, knowing when it is time to actually release.

Yeah, that's a good question and it's a hard one too. But I feel like the messages and the signs and the symbols continue to get louder when you know it's time. You know, I can think of a couple of friendships and activities, hobbies that I used to partake in that every once in while, like I want to go back to. And to be clear, like that's not a bad thing.

think we have to just completely let go and release everything that was our old way, right? And I, I think that at a time I was trying to be so embodied in my new self that it was just like, was denying old parts of myself. It's like, that's not necessarily healthy either. Like it's, you don't have to just completely do a 180, right? But I was finding that like, I wasn't getting the same

I guess, energetic exchange in return from the thing or the person. Friendships that were thriving when I was in my darkest hour were no longer thriving now that I'm on the other side of that and in a much better place. And that was a message to me that it's like, does this connection value our friendship the same way that I do? So that was a question that I had to play with.

And over time, those messages just become so much more clear because it doesn't feel the same. Like you're not getting that same response. And same with activities too, like old gyms that I used to go to or happy hours at the bar down the street. Like to be clear, like that stuff is fun and still a part of my life from time to time, but it doesn't hold the same presence that it did previously because as I've evolved,

Speaker 1 (32:35.67)

my connection to that activity has evolved. Therefore, I'm not getting the same level of fulfillment and joy that I once did. And that's okay. And the one thing that I would want to tell your listeners, Marie, is like, if you are in this phase of releasing and letting go some of these things, hobbies, activities, behaviors, people, but the new thing hasn't come in yet. And so you're sort of in this limbo in between.

embrace that and be okay with it. I had found myself in a place where was like, so badly wanted to call in like, high vibrational, you know, sisters and new friends immediately after like shedding some of the old friendships and it didn't happen in that timing. And so that's when I felt myself pulled to go back. And it's like, no, like Kelly, like it's okay to sit in this unknown in between as you're waiting for that new thing that you're calling in like,

Again, what goes back to what we were talking about earlier with the discomfort is learning to sit with it and be okay with it because there is something magical and special to be learned in that in-between moment.

Yeah. I love this so much because I think about, I mean, honestly, just myself and romantic relationships throughout my life. For most of my life, I was like a serial dater, like person to person, a person to person. Like sometimes there'd be like small gaps, right?

But I was like a serial like monogamous, right? And I say person to person, person to There haven't been that many people, but you know what I mean? It's like, you go right into the next thing. And I think sometimes we do this with friendships. Sometimes we do this with jobs, right? Like we don't want to make a move until we have the next move. Like there's this idea of we want to know what the guarantee is. And like recently in my own shedding, we could say, I...

Speaker 2 (34:28.757)

I have had to sit with it, right? Like there's been a long period of time of just being fully in the in-between of, know this isn't working. I don't know what's gonna come. I'm not gonna look for what's gonna come. I'm just gonna be here. I'm just gonna be in the uncomfortable. I'm gonna be in the grief. I'm gonna be in the distress. And I've learned that one, we can trust ourselves to lead ourselves through the discomfort, right? Like we can trust ourselves to find the right answer when the right thing comes.

And then also it's almost exactly what you said earlier actually that the wisdom often drops in, in the discomfort. I would say the wisdom and also the clarity. It's so funny. I was just talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago about a relationship that I was just so conflicted and unsure about for a very, very, very long time, like over a year. And it was through this giving myself the time and the space

and allowing myself to be in the discomfort and in the grief of not even just this relationship, but like all the relationships that I just like try to move away from, right? I just try to like quickly jump into the next thing, be distracted from numb myself out from like in, in moving or shifting. It was like through the space that so much clarity came forward about just who I even am and what it is that I even want, right? And

the clarity that is so strong that there's almost no question in going forward that I'm choosing what's serving me, as opposed to, think, whenever we don't give ourselves the time for that wisdom to drop in, there can still be a little bit of tottering, right? There could be a little teeter totter that still happens for a while until you're, even when you're well-rooted and the thing that you know is right for you, there can always still be that little like, did I do the right thing? But it's like this beautiful.

space that I found where, wow, when I give myself the space, I actually know the answer like deeply, right? So I love that. I love that so much.

Speaker 1 (36:31.744)

Yeah, it's, it doesn't feel beautiful at the time, right? Like it's so painful and you're just like, you're like tapping out, like, please, like enough. But you know, anyone that is working, working to trust this, piece of the process, this limbo phase, as I call it, like I would ask that person to reflect on a previous time in life where they sat through something unknown.

write down what that situation is and then write down all the lessons you learned from it. Because by doing that practice, like you're building the evidence for yourself that you have made it through an unknown and uncomfortable time before. And you're also telling yourself that you have evidence of the lessons that were involved with that. So therefore you can apply that to the present moment that you're in and trust that there is a lesson that you will at some point in the future, like know to be true.

You know, I did that a lot with the 2019, 2020 era of my life when so much just felt like chaos and change. And I just could not for the life of me figure out why it was happening. And now I can so clearly look back on that time and be like, that was all happening for me for like two pages of lips of why and why it happened period and why it happened at that time. Like there were so many things that I can point to. So I would just ask someone to like,

Go through that exercise to help build that trust with yourself that there is something to be learned in this moment.

I love that so much. and even just adding to that. something that one of my coaches talked me through, I don't know, probably six weeks ago, she was telling me that in a massive relationship rupture, breaking apart that she experienced, she almost misses. She, she like romanticized about time so much that she almost misses the experience is what she was saying. And so as I was talking to her through my situation, she was like, write everything down.

Speaker 2 (38:34.304)

And even in leaving my job, was talking to her about the discomfort I was feeling in leaving and not knowing what's coming. And then also not even wanting to show up anymore because I know that I'm leaving, but I, you know, feel in my heart and holding integrity that I need to show up and just all of those things happening. And she's like, write down, write it all down, write it all down in detail, because you're going to want to remember how this feels. And it's going to get you through so many other things. And, and I found that as I started practicing this and allowing myself to really write down the intimate

icky, really hard, deep, heavy moments. That in itself was so healing. Like, wow, okay. I don't even feel this anymore. Right. And I remember, I don't know, four or five weeks ago feeling like I'm never going to get out of this. Right. Like, you know, when you're in the depths of it you're just like, I literally thought I'm going to be depressed for a year. That's what I was telling myself. I was like, I'm going to be like this for a year. And it's like this, cause this entire past since, January.

So I feel like so much has blown up in my life in a very beautiful way, but in a very, in a way that can be very painful. And it was this thing of like, my God, how am going to survive this? And how do I hold this heaviness throughout all of the contraction? Like while I'm expanding as well, because at the same time you always feel it that you're growing, right? And it's like in the depths of like the deepest heartbreak is where I think.

the biggest transformation can be catalyzed if we allow ourselves to step into that, right? So I just, yeah, I love this advice from you so much of just building the evidence that you can, you can, and you will get yourself through it. And fast forward a few weeks later, I'm like, life is great. You know what I mean? Like things have shifted so much, but I was literally just texting a friend like, man, I really never thought I would be happy. Like I truly in my, was questioning, am I going to be happy again? What does this mean for my business?

How do I lead other people if I'm in this darkness, in this dark area? And then what I found through my work is that we still can lead other people. And in fact, we actually are leading ourselves even in those dark moments. It's like, how can we remember that? How can we write it down and give ourselves, provide the evidence for it that we're doing fine?

Speaker 1 (40:50.664)

Ooh, I love what you just said about that because as leaders and coaches and mentors, it's so easy to fall into this trap that like we have to have it all figured out. Like everything that we went through in the past. And so now we're in this perfect place of like guiding and teaching and coaching and like, boom, everything's great. And it's like, no, like we're human beings too. And we are also on this journey with you, with our clients that like we're learning and growing and going through dark times.

Bill and more to come, I'm sure. And that's okay. Like that's perfectly okay. Like, because that, allows us to continue to embody like who we need to be as leaders and how we can show up best for our clients too, who are moving through difficult times.

I love that so much. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So what are you doing now? So yeah, let's talk about your work. Let's talk about what your day looks like. Let's talk about what your favorite thing to work on is your favorite, maybe like client topic, maybe favorite thing that you're working through. And I say favorite, but where your soul feels most drawn right now. What is that? What are you doing?

Yeah. so I've been in my coaching business, about six months now and having an absolute blast. Like I am so, so fulfilled each and every day with the work that I get to do and the clients that I get to serve. So a lot of the clients that I've had the pleasure of interacting with are typically in a place in life where they are looking for more purpose, looking for more fulfillment. They are, done with the like,

status quo, I would say they're done with feeling stuck. And they just have this deep knowing of like, there's more to life than what I'm doing right now. And that could be a career that could be a move that could be just evolving like lifestyle and how they are being every day. So that's a lot of what I'm really working with clients on right now and seeing a lot of themes around jobs, right? Like we talked a lot about.

Speaker 1 (42:58.446)

You know, we talk a lot about the great resignation, the great awakening, whatever you want to define it as. There's a lot of conversation about that with my clients right now. And then I mentioned earlier, but a lot of clients really looking for more purpose and really looking to understand like, does purpose actually mean? So that's something that I'm working on. lot of the clients that I'm working with right now are in a one-on-one capacity that will likely evolve at some time this year. So stay tuned.

More to come on that. yeah, it's been really fulfilling and just like seeing the impact that I can have with other people and be like, hey, like I resonate with you. I get it. I understand. And then be able to like help them return to who they are and create those breakthroughs. Like it's so incredible to be a witness.

And it's not me doing it, right? To be clear, I'm not some magic worker. It's really just being able to energetically connect with clients and guide them back to themselves. And it's really them doing the work. So it's beautiful to watch that.

I love this so much too. So I had a yoga teacher. She's totally still a yoga teacher of mine, but I remember maybe four years ago, I went to one of her classes and I was like, you kicked my ass at the end of class. was like, my gosh, you kicked my ass in that class. And she said, no, you, no, I didn't. You did. You kicked your own ass. And I was like, I guess I did. Right. And I love this.

perspective and this resonates so much with me as well because I do feel that it is the job of the guide, the coach, the teacher, the healer to always be bringing people back to themselves. And it's like the crux of the work is really just holding that safe space to allow people to do that, to allow people to remember like, actually that came from here. I did kick my ass, right? Or I am making the choices that I'm making. And I am, I am doing just fine.

Speaker 2 (45:07.148)

I know more than I think I know. So I think that's so, I love that. I love that a lot. And then I want to touch back in on purpose because this is an area where I focus quite a lot as well. And I would ask, you know, for anybody who is maybe feeling similar to some of your clients, maybe feeling the whisper that things maybe need to shift or change a little whisper calling of wanting to connect more deeply with themselves and what they're here to do.

what advice would you give them? What guidance would you give them in starting to connect with their purpose and starting to discover what fulfillment can be and how to even begin?

Yeah. such a good deep question. My response, my advice to someone who is looking for more meaning and more purpose is to rewire the thought that you have to go out and find purpose. Your purpose is not external from you. It is within you. It is coded into your DNA, into your soul.

That's step one. And that's a big step because we've been taught all these years that we have to go on this Zelda like excursion to go find our shiny purpose out there, right? So we have to go through all these hoops and battles to do it. And that's just simply not true. Our purpose is already embedded within us. We have to remember and unlock what that is. And so, you know, I would

I would ask folks out there that are maybe in this phase or struggling with this to first get really clear on who you are. And I don't mean from the identities that we traditionally use as a society, Like wife, mother, spouse, CEO, job type, whatever that is, right? Like shed all of that. Who are you at your most raw, vulnerable core?

Speaker 1 (47:13.74)

And then from there, there's a whole series of questions that, you know, I would take clients through to help like really tap into what is purposeful and meaningful, but like, it doesn't have to be this big, audacious, tricky quest for our entire life. Like it could be as simple as like right now, my purpose is to connect with you Marie on this podcast. It could be just something so simple throughout your day.

But yeah, like I would encourage people to really get clear on who they are and then, you know, start tapping into like what fills you up, what brings you joy, what do you get lost in? Where do you feel that spark, that light? Like we've all experienced that at some point in our life. It's a matter of tapping into like what were those instances? What was happening within you that created that?

Mm, I love this. And it's often these so in mentioning the sometimes the simplicity of purpose and meaning, I find that it's these, is the smallest, simplest forms that can be the most life altering and shifting for us, right. And I love to just this, well,

I sense a little bit of a theme in the rewiring of the thoughts, right? But rewiring of the thoughts that you have to go out and find purpose. This resonates so much and hits home with me so much because this is an unraveling. This is like a true process. It is a full unlearning. I've done like full three hour, find your purpose sessions with people. And then a week later, I get a message from them of like, yes, this really hit home. This really resonates. But how does this apply to my job?

How does this apply to the, like, right? Like what career should I go into because of this? And I'm like, and there's so much empathy there because we are so wired and tied to this idea that we have to be doing something or we have to be known as something or we need a particular title or there's like a thing outside of us that's gonna dictate what it is that we should be doing. I think when we find our, when we get to the edge of what our success is, when we get to the edge of fulfillment, it's actually working from the inside.

Speaker 2 (49:29.518)

out, right? Like it's actually starting within and then pulling whatever's inside of us and bringing it out into the world, which looks different for everyone. This is one of my favorite things is like, I think when we look at a life fully lived, it's very rarely rooted in one thing. You know, it's very rarely like this person just did this one single thing from the time they were born until the time they died or from the time they were age 20 until

65 or whenever they actually retire, right? So often, even if we stay in one job, even if we stay at one company, so often we still deviate and we try other things. And I think it's so important to do this because we realize that it's not the thing outside of us at all, but it's us expressing ourselves. And I think the most beautiful and fulfilled lives are those that, and careers even, are those that allow themselves to experience, to explore, to express in so many different ways.

and work in so many different ways. So I just think that's, it's important. Yeah. And then I want to talk also about this idea of who are you at your most raw core? This is a question that I come back to all the time. I think anytime I'm getting ready to make a big decision, anytime I feel conflict, anytime I'm like doing the thing where I'm identifying with something outside of myself, I'm like, who am I, who am I, who am I?

And there are times where I feel so clear in this and there are times where I don't even have an answer. So I would love to hear from you, how you guide people back to this and what your experience is with this question in yourself.

This question, had I have had to answer this question for my first 30 something years of life, that page would have been blank for decades because I would have just been like, I don't know. Like, because I used to identify who I was based on my identity. Like for the longest time it was, I'm a basketball player. Like I played basketball for 20 years and through college. And so that was my identity.

Speaker 1 (51:40.814)

That's what I knew myself as. And then after that, was like, like now what? well now I'm a recruiter, you know, and so on. Like, you see where it's going. So it wasn't until just the last few years, like I was able to really strip away those identities to really like get to this place of like, okay, I'm a spiritual being. I am a soul in this human body vessel here on earth to connect. So that's where I'm at today with that question.

but it's evolving just like our purpose does, right? And I find that when I have my clients go through the who am I exercise, there's a lot of stuckness that happens there because they've either not answered that question before or they don't know how to do it without a title or an identity. so it really is, it can be frustrating and like to be clear, that's okay. I don't.

put it out there to frustrate, but I do think that like, those are the types of questions that we have to ask ourselves to cut through the things that we have to unlearn to get to our core. And so it's met with a lot of resistance typically. But as they get through that and I see the glimmer of light and the breakthroughs happen, it's like, okay, like the wheels are turning.

know, with this person and like they're starting to like really discover who they are at their core and what they're about and what they stand for. So it's, it's a frustrating but fun exercise done with love.

I love this. I think, well, what came to me as you were talking is who you are will never limit you. And I think the same is true of purpose, right? Like the more you connect in with your purpose, the more infinite your possibilities will become, the more you actually can be, the more you can show up as, and also the less attached we are to how we're perceived, right? Because we realized that the way that we're perceived has nothing actually to do with who we really are, which is,

Speaker 2 (53:53.934)

can be challenging to fully like take on and embody, right? But it's also absolutely freeing when you do come to that realization because you're like, oh, it doesn't even matter. It doesn't even matter what job I'm in right now. It doesn't even matter how this person, it doesn't matter what outfit I'm wearing or what shoes I have on or what my favorite color is or what things I like or don't like. Like none of that actually, and how people perceive or take that in, none of that actually has anything to do with me.

It allows us to become so firmly rooted in ourselves to where it's almost like this unshakable level of confidence comes in and like unshakable level of worthiness and freedom, I think.

Yeah, totally. It's this reconnection of this knowing of like we're sovereign beings. Like we're free of any other structures, programming labels or what have you that like we were told we have to take on and absorb and accept. And we get to just like crumble all of that and just show up as we are. And to your point, like you said, like without worry of

what the perception from the outside world is now like that is that true all the time once you discover yourself like sure there's moments where your ego wants to speak up sometimes and you want to judge yourself sometimes. That's okay like that's that's perfectly fine like you're still learning and you're still growing but yeah it is a very freeing feeling like you said to get to this place of like my coach likes to call it zero fuck.

given. Just be who you are. And I find that like when I'm really embodying that and feeling that, to some days I don't feel that as much, but on the seasons that I do, that's when I'm like, magnetizing and calling in a lot of the things that I've desired, whether like consciously or even subconsciously. So it's really interesting to see how that works out.

Speaker 2 (55:59.694)

That's so good. Yeah, that's such a good thing to bring forward of whenever we are fully embodying that. It's almost like life just flows so much more effortlessly. The things that we want start to come to us as opposed to us having to force them to make them happen. One of my coaches was talking about how every morning she puts in her notes on her phone the things that she wants to accomplish.

she meditates on them and she goes for a walk and usually they solve themselves. Like one of the things, I think she posted about this on Instagram even, but one of the things was, you know, she was looking for a photographer and she just wrote that down, looking for a photographer and she ended, she actually met her photographer on her walk. Whereas a lot of times I think when we have this list of things we need to do, we think that, you know, I gotta go on Google and like look for a photographer and like find someone that's in alignment with me. And sometimes of course we do do those things, but.

I think there's this level of whenever we show up fully as ourselves, we're showing up and serving ourselves first as well. So taking care of ourselves, loving ourselves, maybe going for the morning walk or whatever the thing is, the things that we want actually like just come, right? So I think that's so beautiful. It's like the closer we can get to this, who am I? And the closer we can get to what am I here to do and what's really existent at the core, the less

we have to worry about what's going on around us because the more we find we're actually just, I like to think of it as we become one with nature, right? I don't think that, I don't know, flowers ask themselves what they need to do today, right? It's like they just are and things just move and happen. And yeah, I think that's beautiful.

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Speaker 2 (57:55.118)

So what's next for you?

So I am in a place right now where I am growing my one-on-one business. and I'll make sure that you have my socials for the show notes, but I am on Instagram and LinkedIn. So anyone who is feeling connected to my methods today or in a place where they're looking to explore purpose, fulfillment, shift out of being stuck, I do have capacity for one-on-one clients. And then I am working on a new offering that will probably

Drop this summer. I typically teach master classes quarterly. So stay tuned for updates on when my next one is going to be. So yeah, like a few different things in the works. And then just for fun, like a little bit of travel happening this summer too.

I love this. Where are going?

I am going to be going on a Southeastern Oregon road trip with my dad and my sister. we're going to be some exploration of part of the state out here that I've never seen. And then I will be flying out to the East Coast in Jersey to meet up with a dear, a full sister of mine for a little while. So I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 (59:05.792)

I love that. You'll have to let me know if you get down to NC. Love to see you. Thank you so much, Kelly. This has been just such a treat.

Of course.

Speaker 1 (59:17.582)

I appreciate you having me, Marie. Like, we can talk all day. But I just, appreciate you and I appreciate the opportunity to connect with your community as well. Thank you so much for having me.

You are so.