Episode 15. Debt, Privilege & Conscious Wealth: Building a Human-Centered Business with Vee Weir (@veefrugalfox)
The Inner Briefing Podcast
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Description:
In this candid conversation, Marie sits down with Vee Weir—the force behind @VeeFrugalFox and Weir Digital Marketing—to talk about the real work of money, business, and becoming yourself. Vee shares her path from debt to financial freedom, why money is a neutral tool, and how privilege, identity, and policy shape personal finance outcomes. We also get practical: when to leave a 9–5, how to build a purpose-driven brand, what to post first, and the non-negotiables every new founder needs (CPA, separate accounts, consistent content). Expect straight talk on conscious wealth, empathy-based budgeting, building connection online, and showing up as your whole self—without waiting for permission.
Guest: Vee Weir — CEO, Weir Digital Marketing; creator of @VeeFrugalFox; personal finance educatorThemes: debt payoff, entrepreneurship, privilege & money, conscious wealth, identity & faith (Wicca), content strategy, authenticity, safety & masking
Light content note: mentions of divorce, domestic violence, and sexual assault (non-graphic).
Guest Links
Instagram: @VeeFrugalFox
Website: veefrugalfox.com
Agency: Weir Digital Marketing
Key Takeaways
Money is a tool, not a moral scorecard. It amplifies intention. Aim it at freedom, time, options, contribution.
Context matters. Personal finance sits inside policy, privilege, identity, and systemic realities—address both the micro and macro.
Empathy-based budgeting works. Grace, honesty, and intention beat shame and rigidity over the long term.
Relationships are your moat. Connection > algorithms. Vee’s business was built on years of genuine community.
Start before you’re ready. “Imperfect action beats perfect inaction.” Publish consistently; refine in public.
Founder non-negotiables: get a CPA, create separate business accounts, formalize your entity/LLC, and start posting.
Mission > me. Your content should answer: What problem do I solve? How do I make life better for my audience?
Resources mentioned:
Empathy-based budgeting (Vee’s framework)
Starter founder checklist (CPA, entity, accounts, content plan)
Content ideas: 5 posts to publish first (problem → promise, origin story, quick win tutorial, FAQs, client mini-case)
If you’re starting now:
Write your mission in one sentence (who you serve + the result).
Open separate biz accounts and book a CPA consult.
Publish 3–5 posts this week tied to your mission (teach one tiny win).
Transcript (RAW):
Marie Groover (00:03.95)
Hello and welcome to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast hosted by myself, Marie Groover from The Corporate Psychic. This week we have a very special episode and conversation with V. Weir, CEO of Weir Digital Marketing and financial influencer at V. Frugal Fox. It's a vast discussion spanning debt, entrepreneurship, privilege, wealth consciousness, the practice of Wicca.
self-integration among all of the facets within the human experience, and so, so much more. If this episode resonates, I ask that you share with someone who would benefit. And with that, let's get to it.
Marie Groover (00:48.856)
So I know you through a mutual friend slash your cousin. Yes. And we've kind of been on the edge of each other's networks for like a really long time now. Actually, when I was thinking about this, I feel like it's got to be at least 10 years, but I don't know. I've known Sarah for like 15 years. I was going to say it's been like 10 years since we've kind of been orbiting each other. So it's cool because I've been able to witness like some of the awesome stuff that you've done and just like,
from the edge ground up. But that being said, I don't want to make any assumptions. So I'd love for you to share like who you are and what your story is and anything you would like for myself and the world to hear.
Vee Weir:
Okay. It feels weird introducing myself to you, but we're going to go with it. For your listeners. I am the owner and founder of @VeeFrugalFox and I am the CEO of Weir Digital Marketing.
Both those entities are in the personal finance space. @VeeFrugalFox is a influencer account that I run. And then we're digital marketing helps people like @VeeFrugalFox create their content and spread their message of financial literacy. We work with Instagramers, bloggers, vloggers, anybody who has a podcast, I work on five podcasts now. So it's a wide range of mediums that we work on and all the creativity that I could ever want in a job. But I really got into this space in 2016 when I graduated from Carolina. I realized that I couldn't afford my food, my student loan bills, and my medication. And that was a moment that completely changed my life. It was January 4th, 2016, and I was sitting at my kitchen counter, and I realized how screwed I really was.
And financial education had never been taught to me. It was just never something that was brought up in my home growing up. So I really started at zero. I worked my way up to exactly where I am now as a quote unquote money expert, which is grandiose, but I don't know any other way to like say it.
But yeah, I started my debt-free journey after that day and I ended up paying about $50,000 and then I got a divorce, which you saw all of that wonderful part of my life where I was a complete wreck. And then after that, I paid an additional $20,000 with my second husband. And so now I'm debt-free and I'm running my companies.
Marie Groover:
Well, it's funny because the first thing I was thinking as you're talking is I was like, so we should hire you. so I definitely want to talk about that. and just the work that you've done in helping businesses grow and scale. But before we do that, I want to keep continue with just you and your story. So talk to me more about this pivotal moment of really deciding to go in on yourself and this journey to becoming debt free. And then also, something that we've been talking a lot, talking about a lot here at TCP is.
going all in on ourselves and leaving our jobs. And I think when I met you, well, like, I guess I've known you, but like when we spent time together, the first time I can really remember, you were, I think you were working, weren't you? Didn't you have a job and you started this on the side? So tell me what was that story and process like?
Vee Weir:
Well, I've always been in marketing. I started my company with my cousin in 2010. I think we started our first marketing firm.
And then I went to college and that kind of disbanded because I was 19 and had no idea what I was doing. But we disbanded that. But I went to Carolina and I got a degree in communications. And ever since I can remember, I've been in social media. I haven't been in any other industry. It's always been communications and social media. So my entire adult life has been that career.
So no matter what job I've had in marketing, it's always been on social media. And I've always also had something on the side. I'm that person that I can't sit still, partly because I have anxiety and it's just something that I don't do. I'm always doing something always. So even now, like I have V for Fox, weird digital marketing. I have a soap business on the side. also dog sit, I'm sitting in a dog sitter's or one of my client's houses.
So I'm just always constantly going. That's just how my brain works. but yeah, I I've always had something in the side. So when you first met me as an adult, me, I, I did, I was working on social media, doing consultation and stuff like that. So it's always been in the periphery for me, no matter where I've been employed.
Marie Groover:
And so when, when did you decide to take the leap out of working for someone else
Vee Weir:
Um, so I got separated from my first husband in 2017 in August, and then I lost my job after my separation and divorce in January, 2019. And the company that I was working for, which is, was in the toy, gift and game industry. was doing marketing for them. Um, and also being an assistant, it was kind of a, it was a tiny company. So it was basically, I wore every hat that you can, cause that's how it works.
they were downsizing. marketing's first to go, obviously. In any situation, that's usually what it is. So they kicked me to the curb, but before they did, my boss was like, you know, could really do this like on your own. And I was like, hmm. And I sat with that and I was like, you know, that's so privileged for you to say, because like you have this company.
And you have health insurance and you're not the one without a job. You're also a man that's been in your industry for 20 years. So I was a little bitter, but then I sat with it and I started applying to jobs and I applied to hundreds of jobs. And I don't know how, what number application I was on. was just like, fuck this. I can't, I can't do it anymore. I cannot submit my resume and then have to fill out a 50 questionnaire based
on the resume that I just submitted. I just can't do it. So I was like, screw it. I have gone through the worst part of my life thus far. Like I made it through my divorce. Kind of unscathed. mean, there was some mental health stuff there, but I mean, like I was living, I was there, I made it to the other side. I was like, I don't have anything else to lose. Like, why not just do it? Why not take a chance on me? And so that's what I did. I was like, you know, I,
realized that the nine to five world didn't work for me and I realized that I wanted to create my own world because that was the only place I was going to fit in. And so I did and I kind of tumbled into what I tumbled into. that's so okay that's so incredible so much here too I'm like where do we even start?
Marie Groover:
It's funny because it almost feels like you were forced into this, right? Like the universe like pushed you. You're like, all right, I guess I'm going to take the leap. And I love that you took advantage because I feel in so many stories, people take advantage of like the good opportunity, right? Like they're like, this thing happened and I just jumped on it. But you were like, fuck it. I'm in a really low part of my life. It can't possibly get worse. If I lose business, like, okay, that's just another thing on my list and I'll move on from that.
So the first thing that came to me when you said when companies are going under marketing is the first thing to go. Isn't that so counterintuitive though? And I say this from now being a business owner because like 80 % of my time is spent on marketing. I'm like, how can I get someone else to help me with marketing so that I can actually do my job? Because so much of what we do is actually just telling people about what we do. So.
I don't know. That's wild. Is that business still afloat today?
Vee Weir:
The one that used to work for? Yeah. They're still kicking. So, you know, I thought I was going to be in the toy industry for a really long time and I'm so glad I got out of it. I'm yeah, I don't know. I'm just happy that I went out on my own and I'm not working for anybody again. I that experience made me realize that I never wanted to ask permission to live my own life again. Yeah.
man, that's so good. This is something I've been thinking about quite a lot actually, whenever we get into this, into the nine to five groove and I'm like totally not a nine to five hater by the way, I still have mine. But not that I'm gonna be here for very much longer, but I'm still in it. I think there's something that can happen to us so easily when we're working for someone else is this thing that you mentioned of permission, where when we're working for someone else, we...
for someone or something else, like an entity, we almost shift our entire lives to accommodate this thing that we work for. And especially what's crazy is like, I feel like we do this like this and check me here, like gut check me here, but I feel like I see this more. It's like the, the less money that we make almost even the more we're like, let me change my whole life around for this company. That's like not even really taking care of me. And then I feel like the more, comfortable we become.
the more then we start to think about, what is it that I actually want? How can I actually be in this world? Like, how do I want to be in this world? And then the relationship shifts and changes. But like so often we literally like our whole life is shaped around where we work. People move across the country for their jobs. People move like across the town for their jobs so that they can be a mile away instead of 10 miles away, instead of being like, I want to live near the beach because I enjoy the beach. They're like, well, I'll shorten my commute so that I can be at work.
even more in this place that I hate. And it's like this thing where not only do we feel like we're asking for permission from the people who are giving us our paychecks to live the life that we want to live, but then we're also, it's like, we're like bound by societal expectations as well, because we have looked into that.
I think that's why I'm so passionate. Well, that's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about financial education and influence. I mean, the only reason I was able...
to really just say, it was because I had saved a chunk of change in a year. Like I made it my mission to save up a pretty large amount of money for me to be able to take months off and see where I really wanted to land. gave myself by saving money, I gave myself that permission. I gave myself that room to breathe and discover what I really wanted to do. And
Unfortunately, in our capitalist society, money is at the root of everything. And it is at the root of freedom. Unfortunately, money gives you options and it gives you freedom to really prioritize what you want out of your life. And that's why I want more people to have money because it gives more people like if you didn't have debt, if you didn't have the struggle that you're living with day to day with money, what would you do?
Like would your dreams be? Where would you live? And I love talking to people about that. I love talking to people about their wildest dreams because I say, okay, so you want that. So let's figure out a way to get that and what we need to do to get there. Like what's the number that we need for you to explore even the possibility. And yeah, I think that when I had that cushion of money and I could just sit back and not be ruled by somebody else or ruled by
a role or an expectation. And then when I uncoupled myself from the societal expectation of me, that's really when I started to blossom into this role and started to take ownership of making my own destiny. And I think that was really pivotal for me and money was at the root of that. Yeah, that's such a good, it's such a good point too because.
Whenever we are bound by something, I think about even graduating. So when I graduated from my master's degree, I think I graduated with my undergrad with like 30 or $35,000 in student debt. And then I got a master's a couple of years later. And when I finished, was literally, when I started at Microsoft, I remember you get that like six month grace period before you have to pay, right? And so of course I didn't pay anything.
I was like, when, like, why would I do that? you're like, have a lot of reasons why you would, I paid nothing. The interest just like built and I remember checking my account and I was so excited actually to check it because I was making such good money that I was like, I'm going to pay this off. I'm so pumped. Like, let's see how much money I owe. And it was $88,000. And I remember just like instantly this dark cloud came over my head and this thought, like, so joining Microsoft was such a,
It was so not in my plan. It was almost like a side thing that just happened and it was an awesome opportunity and I jumped on it, but like I never thought I would be here. Thankfully I got a job in a really high paying like in the tech industry, right? Cause I think if I had done it literally anything else, I would never, never not be working again. Never. but when I joined, I remember this dark cloud came over me and I suddenly felt like,
Marie Groover (14:48.987)
I cannot leave my job. Like I cannot leave the situation until my student debt is paid off. And then I was like, I'll do it in five years. Like I was doing the calculations of how much money I was making. And I was like, I totally got this. And then I was like putting so much money toward my student loans and nothing changed. Like I remember the first two years I dropped like 13 to 15 K a year. And like my debt was still like 70. I was like, what is happening right now? Is this like terrible cycle? And even now, like I have to be totally honest.
in that part of my being able to leave and walk away from Microsoft now is that I bought a house and sold it and I'm able to pay my debt off. But if I couldn't pay the rest of my student debt off, like I don't know that I would be considering walking away. And so it's this thing of like, especially one, if we're not making a lot of money and we're not in debt, like that's tough because we're in survival mode. But then two, if you're not making a lot of money or making great money, but in a ton of debt, it's like, how do you see past that? And then you feel like,
I can never not do this thing that I'm doing. Even you might even enjoy it, but it's like that feeling of being trapped because you're like, I don't have another option until this is gone. And I think about how many millions of student loan borrowers feel that just millions. And then it goes back to, well, in my opinion, higher education should be free. So, you know, it's also about looking at the systemic issues and
really unpacking like why the system is the way that it is. I just think about if student loans were canceled, can you imagine the injection of money into the economy? And the injection of creativity in entrepreneurship. I hope that I live to see that day where people aren't so burdened by the societal expectation and requirement really.
to get a higher education to simply survive. I really hope that I see that day. Yeah, it is. It's like this vicious cycle too, because I feel like we all think we need to go to college to do the things that we want to do. And it's so funny because now when I'm asked by a younger person, know, hey, what should I do with my life? Not that anyone would or should listen to me by the way, but my advice is always.
Marie Groover (17:15.625)
Do the thing that you love and focus on that. And if that doesn't mean school, then don't go to school, right? Because I think about where I'm at now and I'm like, man, if I would have just started this when I was 18, like I would probably still be in the same place, but I would have just not had that debt. I would have skipped all these things and I would never take back my college experience and my master's degree. Like I learned so much in the past 10 years of my life. And I think had it not
had I not felt so pressured to do that, it would be different. And then the same thing of coming from a family where there was no way my parents could have afforded to help me with college. So like having to take student loans out, having no idea what that even meant for myself. And thank goodness I got a really great job. But even having friends now who, because oftentimes our student loans come from the government.
our payment plans can be so long, right? Like people will pay off their loans for their entire life. And it's this thing of like, just, okay, I'm just going to accept that I have this payment for the rest of my life, which then just makes it get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And then it's this thing of like, I don't even want to look at that because now it's so big. And I guess I'm just going to be paying the very minimum until I die. Right. That's, that's the reality for so many people. And
I was in the same boat with you. my family couldn't afford to send me to school. So I married a guy that I knew for three months and I got military benefits and, that marriage turned into an abusive nightmare. I did it partly because I needed to survive. And that's really, I actually just came out about that probably a month ago about like why I really.
am so passionate about teaching people about these things. And it's because, I never want another woman to be in my situation. Like I shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. But I mean, people will do whatever they have to do to go to college because we are pressured as a society, as a younger generation to do that. And I think to your point, like, you don't have to go to college. Like you can go to trade school and make a hundred thousand dollars a year at 20.
Marie Groover (19:33.061)
There are so many, and especially with like social media and living in the digital age, you don't need a degree to earn a living, you know, if that's not what you want. And I will say that my education was an investment and I don't regret that investment. think that the return on that investment for me has been appropriate to my life and what I've made.
And it's given me the experience I've needed to be a business owner and a successful business owner. But it's definitely not something that I would say to a young person, like you must do because there's so many different opportunities now. And even companies like, you know, Google and Microsoft are saying, you know, we want you to get certified in these different things and we'll still consider you. So it's just, it's subjective. And I,
just hate the cycle that we're in. I hate the cycle of debt. my brother actually did the same thing. I think he refinanced or sold something in real estate so that he could become debt-free. Like that's something that people do. That's a quote unquote hack. But yeah, I mean, he was like, was never gonna become.
debt-free without it. And he's like, I was just so tired of paying that student loan and he's 40. Like he's been out of school a long time, you know? So, so yeah, it's, it's not uncommon for me to come across that in my job, people that are older with kids paying off their college still. And it's, I feel like as a society, we should be ashamed. my goodness. Yeah. And I, I can't imagine like being older, having children.
still paying off your student debt and thinking about their education. It's like, can you imagine you're paying your student debt? You don't want to put your child in that debt. And so what do you do? Take on more debt so that you can get your child through school. That's rough. Yeah. I mean, it's generational financial trauma.
Marie Groover (21:53.289)
Okay. So let's talk a little bit about what you did to get out of debt and then how that has transformed over the years because, yeah, I've seen you again from the edge. I've seen you like make this massive shift in transformation just from where you started. And I'm super proud by the way. So honored to know you. even just you're so welcome, but just seeing that growth from like the first, my gosh. Yeah. Post your divorce when you had paid everything off and you're like, all right.
You know, I'm going out into the world to where you are now and just the ways in which you think about money and how that has shifted. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah. Um, when I first started paying off debt, I was using the Dave Ramsey method and, um, back then quote unquote 2016, which is, you know, so far in the past, but so much can change in what is that six years, seven years. In the social media realm that was back then, um, there were only a handful of people.
documenting debt payoff on Instagram when I started. And it's kind of evolved into what it is today, which is a multimillion dollar industry at minimum. But yeah, I started with Dave Ramsey and everybody else did as well because he was the loudest person in the space and the most documented.
And I really went hard on our debt, meaning we sold a lot of things. I worked multiple jobs. My ex-husband worked as much overtime as he could. We budgeted. We did everything by the book and we were able to pay all that money off. We even at one point drained a Roth IRA, which I would never, ever suggest. But I, you know, was, debt was the demon. Debt was the enemy.
the villain and I just wanted to get out from under it. And that was the way that it was positioned to everybody that was following Dave Ramsey. Like debt is the devil. So that's really where it started. And then I realized pretty quickly, like in 2017, when I separated from my ex, that the message no longer was being spoken to me.
Marie Groover (24:12.955)
because I wasn't in this traditional married upper middle class situation anymore. I wasn't the demographic that Dave Ramsey preaches to. And I will say preaches because I find him akin to a pastor spreading the good gospel of financial peace. And that's the way that he sees himself.
And I also realized through social events like the murder of George Floyd and COVID and all of these abhorrent things that Dave Ramsey didn't align with my views of the world anymore. And he came from an extreme place of privilege that didn't acknowledge any struggle or anything outside of what his life looked like. And I realized very quickly
that money is involved in all of these things. And we have to think about finances, both in a macro and a micro way. Like you can't just talk about personal finance without talking about politics, without talking about race, without talking about gender, without talking about sexuality, without talking about how capitalism is underneath everything. You cannot separate these things. They are inherently intrinsically linked. And that's the way that money needs to be discussed.
I think that we do a disservice when we don't see the connections of all of it. And yes, it can be overwhelming, but I think that the great thing about my industry in social media and influencers is that we can educate people in a very visual and easy to understand, digestible way so that we can have these conversations without being completely overwhelmed. And I was just finding Dave Ramsey
to be lacking in all of those things. And the space, the debt-free community on Instagram, the personal finance community, industry has really shifted away from that singular, just monochrome voice. And now it's anything that you want it to be. If you are a person of color and you want to only follow people of color that do
Marie Groover (26:39.111)
financial education, there are hundreds of thousands of accounts for you to go to. If you are LGBTQ, you can absolutely find people. If you are somebody that wants to be only in real estate or only in the debt-free community or only in the FIRE community, it's really just branched off into this beautiful, colorful tree of anything you want it to be. And I love it. I love the evolution.
And that's really kind of the way my life transformed. I got out of the situation where it was just so like, I felt like I had blinders on and then my life crumbled and I realized, like this is actually really fucked up. And so I changed, I decided to change. And I mean, all through that, I was going through therapy and really discovering who I wanted to be.
that didn't include who I used to be. And so I made the change to be a more empathetic, more holistic person. love this so much and it's so vulnerable. So thank you for that. And by the way, I was getting chills as you were talking about just all of the options that are out there now and how things have changed and how interconnected everything really is. think it's, it's such a beautiful example of, so this happens in spiritual, in the spiritual world, but
I think all over all of the industries, right? Like we have these teachers, these guides, these mentors in our spaces that are the loudest voice in the room or that teach like this is the one way, right? And there's almost always a following toward these people and that's completely good and great. Like we all have our own discernment and can do without what we want, but it's this beautiful knowing that we have.
that can connect to that there are a hundred thousand different paths to whatever it is that we want. And I always like to be wary of and warn people that I work with. Like if I'm not your person, that's completely okay. And I'm okay with that. And I want everyone to know that that's completely fine, right? Like I don't know the way. Just like you're like, even, I love how even earlier you're like, it's grandiose to say that I'm a money expert, which you are by the way, but it's like, it's like.
Marie Groover (28:59.716)
there's wisdom in being able to say that only the person in front of us, only the person at hand is the person that knows what's best for them, right? And there again are a hundred thousand different ways to get where you want to go. And I think the best guides and the best teachers are not going to be the ones that say you have to do it this way. And there's like this one path, right? I just feel like it's so, we're all just trying to figure it out. I mean, really, really like,
We're sitting here, two female entrepreneurs with very, very different paths, but we are still trying to, no one has ever figured it out. No one's ever like crossed the finish line of knowledge and wisdom and been like, all right, we're done. Like I don't need to do anything else. And I know everything and I am the expert. You should follow always. I have all the
But that's just not something that happens. And so we're all just trying to figure it out. And I think being vulnerable and honest about that is really what attracts people to quote unquote influencers or, to businesses like the corporate psychic. I really feel like that vulnerability is, has taken the place of the loudest voice in the room. And I, a hundred percent here for it.
my gosh. Yeah. It's like seeing people in their humanness, right? As opposed to whatever else, whatever else that is like authority. don't know. Yeah. I think we all are just tired of the same old bullshit. And especially with the pandemic, I think it really changed the way that we view that view experts and gurus and we're all just like, I just want a human to tell me.
Like it's okay. Yes. I just want a human to tell me that it's okay. Oh yeah. It's like that validation of, um, we're perfect exactly the way we are. Like imperfectly perfect. Right. I was just talking actually to a teacher earlier today about how we're all on the right path. were like, is there a right or wrong? Like there's no right or wrong. Like there's no, there's no right path. We are just, we are right. Like where we are is exactly where we're supposed to be. I don't know. got, it got a little.
Marie Groover (31:18.532)
got a little out there. But I mean, it's true. You are, everything that's happened in your life has led you to exactly this conversation that we're having right now. Absolutely. So yeah, I'm very much about that. Woo woo. Way out there stuff. I love it. I love it. love it. I love it. So, um, actually, yeah, let's go into that. So what, what are you, what do you practice? You're
practice Wiccan, yes? Can you tell me about this? What are you? Yeah, what are you? Yeah, I identify as a Wiccan pagan, which is very different in my industry, especially with the Dave Ramsey crew in the beginning, very, very Christian. And I never really subscribed to that religion. I mean, I grew up in the South, so I've been to every kind of denomination, church,
you can imagine, Methodist and Baptist were the two that I am most familiar with, but it's just never been me. And I moved to Colorado. I joke that I moved to Colorado. I burned my bra and I became a Wiccan. That's pretty epic. It's true. So love it. Yeah, I am a practicing Wiccan. Yeah. So tell me, okay, so how did this, I love this, I moved to Colorado, burned my bra, became a Wiccan.
how did you discover this like space and what drew you to it? And what does your practice look like? Yeah. Tell me everything.
trying to think of when exactly I knew that Wiccanism was a thing. I mean, I probably knew about it in high school. My best friend has always been pagan and we never really had a deep conversation about it, but I always knew that she didn't worship like the Christian God. So I guess through books and education and the World Wide Web, I was kind of searching
Marie Groover (33:18.574)
for that void, I'd always felt like there was just this emptiness in me when it came to spirituality. And I really do feel like when I was married to my first husband, it was, you're going to be a Christian. It wasn't like an option not to be. And his family, they were from Texas. So that should tell you everything you need to know about that. So when I divorced, I really did feel like I had like this awakening.
I had this opportunity to really explore who I wanted to build, who I really wanted to be. And when I moved to Colorado, then when I met Joe, my second husband, he has always given me the time, the space and the grace to explore myself and to build whoever I wanted to be. And he's always been like, I love you with no asterisks. whatever.
I decide I want to be and show up to the world. He's going to love me regardless. And that's just a little peek into how much I love him. But I think he, he's been pagan too. I met him and he was very like, pagan. I'm like, okay, cool. Great. Um, you know, I don't have any qualms about that. And so I think through watching him explore his religion and then knowing that my other best friend was pagan, I decided to like take that leap and to see what could.
happened for me if I looked into it. So in 2019, I moved here to Colorado, and I decided to do my year in a day, which you study Wicca for a year and a day before you can officially call yourself a Wiccan. And then you have a self induction ceremony, and then you're officially Wiccan. So I studied it for a year and a day. And I just decided it was, it made sense to me in a way that no other religion did.
So yeah, that's my journey. That's so cool. I love this. I love to, by the way, you're like, this is really out there from the rest of the financial industry, but I think it's amazing. cause one, it's like a Testament of just like the diversity that can exist, right. In any industry. and then two, I love it, of course, because I'm super in the woo woo, but also in like the tech and corporate world, the contrast, I think between.
Marie Groover (35:44.388)
actually what I should say is the contrast in ourselves and all of the different things that we practice and that we dive into and that we study and like all of the different ways that we maybe even identify as humans. Like I love so much that you are a Wiccan and you're like, this is really out there and woo woo for the financial industry and in the financial world.
But to me, that's so amazing. And it's like the perfect example of the exact kind of work that I love to do the most because I feel like oftentimes, and I'm curious about your experience by the way, because I feel like oftentimes when we find something that we really identify with on a soul level or a heart level or in like a belief or faith level, sometimes it feels really conflicting with the path that we're on or with the thing that we do for a living or with the people in our lives.
And so whenever that conflict happens inside of us, there's this moment of, I choose X or do I choose Y? And then there's also this beautiful realization of, I don't have to. And I think you had this really amazing partner that allowed you to explore all of these facets of yourself, knowing that you wouldn't have to choose, your relationship versus your beliefs or your values. But I don't know that everyone is always so...
vocally accepting, let's say that in relationships, as well as if environments around us feel so outwardly accepting, right? I think it's a little bit easier when you work remotely, when you have your own business, when you have a supportive partner, but there's like this conflict that happens when you're in a lot of other spaces. I mean, it happens regardless. So I'm curious, like, did you ever feel that conflict as you started practicing Wicca? And then what did that look like as you integrated?
parts of self, especially because you're like, it's really out there for what I'm doing. Yeah. I definitely felt in the beginning, like I had to mask it. I think masking is a very real thing for many people with religion, sexuality, X, and Z. You you have to feel like you fit a certain demographic to be successful. Especially I feel like as women, we have to act a certain way.
Marie Groover (37:59.244)
in order to climb that ladder. Otherwise we're perceived as a bitch or as a slut in the office. know, I mean, these are very archaic things that have persisted into 2022, unfortunately. So masking is something that I was very well aware of. And when I did come out as Wiccan, it was around the same time as I was starting to be very vocal about my bisexuality too. And I,
I definitely would kind of put some things out there and be like, okay, let's see how my audience reacts. it didn't go poorly. So I was like, all right, well, I'm just gonna kind of show a little bit more of this. And then eventually I just got to a point where I realized that growing up in the South, in my family,
And then being with my ex-husband, I had masked so long and I was never really given the space to show up as me. Like the person I am right now sitting here talking to you is not the V that used to be. mean, and I...
To be very honest, it's caused a lot of problems in my family. I've had a lot of family turmoil because of the things that I believe and who I am. So I'm not immune to the reality of discrimination or just having your family not understand and not accept you. But I think that I have found safe spaces where they've been offered, like with my husband.
with my best friends, with the community that we've built here in Colorado, with my online community. mean, just the other day, I can't remember who I was talking to, but they were like, you I really appreciate that you say exactly what you feel and you show up exactly who you are, no matter how many feathers it ruffles. And I was like, yeah, that's how I feel because the people who resonate with me, resonate with me. I'm not talking to people who don't. So if you want to unfollow me because I worship the God and goddess,
Marie Groover (40:19.948)
go for it. Like I wasn't talking to you. If you want to unfollow me because I believe black lives matter. Love is love. Science is real. You go for it. Unfollow me. I am not the follower. I am not the influencer for you. I am not account for you and I wish you well, like peace. So I think that really it's in
finding community, at least it has been for me. You I'm asked for so long and then I was like, you know what, I'm tired of wearing this all the time. I just want to be who I am. I just want to be V. And I really took it off and I realized like the people who loved me and were there for me really dug in their heels and were like, we're not going anywhere. And I think that's the advice I have for anybody that doesn't have the privilege of working from home or hiding quote unquote from
other people that may not agree with them is like find the people that do and hold onto those people. that's such good advice. And I love too, what you're saying about just your online presence as well. Like everybody's opting in, right? Anybody who's following you is opting in. And so it's not your responsibility how they take your content. It's responsibility to show up as yourself. And that's like your responsibility to yourself. It's to no one else.
I love this advice too. was literally just about to ask you for anybody who's exploring themselves and exploring new practices and diving into new spaces, maybe in the spiritual world or a new religions or new belief systems. yeah. How, how would you recommend that they find their people? How do you find your people? I usually recommend if you're like really starting new, going to the library or
Barnes and Noble or wherever you get your books and reading a few things. I know in Wicca, they always say, if you don't like reading, this is not the religion for you. Because you're always learning about different things or different philosophies or a different sect of Wiccanism, different witch types. There's just a plethora of knowledge that is never ending. Like I said, we're never not done figuring it out.
Marie Groover (42:32.927)
But I would say like go to the library and get some books that are kind of top in your religion or the experts and just hop online. Like the greatest thing about living in the era that we do is that you can type in a hashtag on Instagram and something will show up. you know, some of my followers in the beginning
with the debt-free journey, we're in like New Zealand, you know, and I still follow them and they're still a part of my life. And so they might not be in your hometown, but there are people experiencing what you're experiencing. And that's why I love social media. I think nowadays with all of the negativity surrounding social media, we've forgotten the core of it, which is connectivity. And that's why I fell in love with what I do is,
connecting people all over the world with the same mission. And I really like getting choked up because it's just like that. We crave connection. We crave understanding and being told that what we were experiencing is valid. And so if you're exploring anything new, try to connect with people. That's what's gotten me through the worst of times. Yeah, connection. It's so...
It is so crucial. And I think when we're going through those times, it can be so easy to block ourselves off from the world, right? Because we're like, nobody else is going to understand or nobody else can feel the way that I feel. And then connection just literally allows us to open up and reblasm. I love this. And then I want to talk about this too, when it comes to business. So anybody out there who is thinking about starting their own business, how important would you say?
marketing and social media and connection, really connection is truly to building that up. man, you don't even know how important it is. Like I didn't even know because when I started my company, I didn't ever think that like I would be able to leverage the frugal Fox, which was in no way, shape or form, like a brand at the time. Like I was just documenting.
Marie Groover (44:42.845)
my budgeting journey and what I liked to do to save money and being frugal. You know, it was just that, but it turned into leveraging these relationships that I had built over. Like the only reason I am remotely successful is because of the relationships I built over a five year period. people that are all across the country that were on the same financial path as me, that were interested in my life,
maybe they had different goals or maybe they had different sects that they were doing like real estate or financial independence, retire early or whatever. But we all kind of came up together and we all cheered each other on and we were all interested and invested in each other. And that is the only way that I have been successful. Almost all of my core clients that I have, I have five or six core clients that sign year long contracts with me.
I have known since 2016. And that's where my business began all the way back there when I, when we're digital marketing wasn't even a thing. So yes, relationships are the core of any good business, I think. And being human centered is at the core of any good business. So take advantage of those relationships, ask questions. The thing that I have found most being an entrepreneur is that
People love helping people. People love being the person that's like, I helped her. Like I remember her when she was at like 5,000 followers and had no money, but like, look at her now. She's a boss ass bitch. And I was there in the beginning and I helped her along. And I'm the same way. If someone comes into my DMs and is like, you know, I'm starting a business. What are your top pieces of advice? I'm like, get a CPA, have separate bank accounts. Like here's all the resources you need. Like, and I'm totally okay with that. Like I...
on a rising tide lifts all ships. And that has been my motto for a very long time. And I feel like that human centered approach is what we all really need, especially right now. relationships and asking for help are, if I didn't focus on those two things, I wouldn't be where I am. I love that so much. A rising tide lifts all ships. That's, I love that.
Marie Groover (47:10.879)
Okay. And also, can you repeat those? said get a CPA, have different bank accounts. Absolutely. The first thing you do logistically is get a CPA because don't fuck with the IRS. They will ruin you. So don't do that. Get a CPA because you probably don't know anything about taxes. don't. Get separate bank accounts. Don't mix your personal finances with your business finances. It's business 101.
register your business for an LLC or whatever corporate, your CPA that you're going to get can help you with that. And start creating content. Cause you can't get viral content if you don't put out content. So start now. my goodness. just saw this past week I was giggling at the, there's like a real audio that's like, you can't have a business.
or if you want to have a business, have to talk about your business. It's like the audio. And I was like, it's so true. It's this thing. I don't know. It's really fascinating. Cause I don't think this is just business wise. I was thinking about this the other day, oftentimes, and I love so much with the debt free journey, how you think about it in terms of what's your dream life and then where are you today? And like, let's get you there. I love that so much because oftentimes I think that we have these
dreams, these really big, beautiful dreams, and then we do nothing about them, and then just hope that one day they'll fall into our laps. like even I think about somebody one time told me that they wanted to be a public speaker. And so I'm like, okay, awesome. Where are you speaking right now? And they're like, no, and I'm like, well, if you want to be a speaker, you have to speak because because let's say let's say that the moment happens.
where like suddenly you're dropped on stage and you have to sub in for somebody great. And there's like a hundred thousand people in front of you. If you've not done the practice and the work, it's not going to be pretty. It's not going to be a good thing. And it's the same thing with businesses. think people start businesses probably because we have this idea of back in the day, you like open up a storefront and then people come to your store. So they're like, I need to get a website and like have SEO. And then people are going to find me and they'll buy my stuff. And so I have a ton of clients who will literally
Marie Groover (49:33.137)
start a business and they'll do everything that they need to do, but then they won't share anything about their business because they're like, no, I'm waiting for people to come. No, actually, actually. That's the opposite. One of my clients, Jamila Soufrant, she runs the Journey to Launch podcast, an amazing human being. She always says, you you need to prepare for the future that you want today.
You can't be a speaker if you're not putting things in place to become a speaker, if you're not speaking. Like your dreams are an action verb. Like you need to do them now. So, yeah, I mean, if you're not creating content, like it doesn't work like that anymore. You have to put yourself out there. You have to be vulnerable. You have to tell people what you're sharing with the world. That's the way that you're going to be seen. That's the way that you're going to get clients or customers or whatever your end goal is.
you know, if I had waited to share content, I wouldn't be here. So, that's such a great, that's such a great point. And something I think about too, for myself, because I, I remember when I was starting TCP, I actually, I was not planning on sharing any content right away. I was going to wait till my website was developed and then I was going to start sharing. And then I don't know what happened. I just started like sharing a bunch of stuff and then people were like, we like this. And I was like, okay, I'm going to keep sharing stuff. Right.
But I realized that in doing that, cause my website was supposed to be developed in like June or July, but because I'm really picky and we went back and forth a lot, didn't actually finish until November. But because of that, I had, I was able to have this epic launch in November because I didn't wait to start. Right. Like I didn't wait for things to look perfect or be perfect. I was just like, I'm just going to share what's happening and then I hope that things stick. then I fortunately, thank goodness, but like I.
was able to create a bit of a community before the actual launch. So then the launch didn't feel like I opened the storefront and threw a party and no one was there. Like it felt like, oh my God, people are here. So what would you say? One of my favorite quotes is that imperfect action is better than perfect inaction. And it's like, you're never going be perfect. The timing is never going to be right. Like ever. You're never going to be ready. It's like when people are like,
Marie Groover (51:53.811)
What's the best advice for becoming a parent? And, you know, my best friend who is pregnant right now, she was like, you're never ready. You're never ready to be a parent is never the right time. You're never fully prepared. You can get all the books. You can get all the do dads. She's like, nothing can prepare you for when that baby is placed in your hands. And it's the same thing with business. mean, my business is my baby. Nothing could have prepared me for this. nothing. So you have to act on your dreams now.
You have to have imperfect action. that's just, I love when people are like, well, I'm waiting, like waiting for what? Like do it now. my goodness. Yeah. And I think about this thing too of like, occasionally this will pop into my head, but tomorrow is not a guarantee. Like five minutes from now, 20 seconds from now is not a guarantee, right? Like anything can happen at any moment. And so what are we waiting for? What if we die?
You know, what if we die and we've like not even tried the thing that we want? Not that we should do things because we think we're gonna die, but you know. No, but like that is the positive side of YOLO. if I, happened tomorrow and I passed away, like at least I know that I did everything I could to make my dreams come true. And I lived a life that I was proud of and I'm not even 30 yet. And I think that kind of
philosophy really does push me to do things that I'm not prepared for or that are crazy to some people. But I just don't want to live with regrets. I've seen so many people that I know age and regret not doing whatever they wanted to do. And that like, I don't want to be in that position ever. Like I have one life. It's a beautiful life that I've created to work for me, not me work for it.
And I just don't want to ever live with regrets. So that's why I do crazy shit. I love it. I love it. If you're going to regret it, just do it. Just do it. So you don't regret it. I love that. okay. So if there's, so when it comes to putting ourselves out there for the very first time, sharing content for the very first time, allowing ourselves to have imperfect action, what would you say the most important piece of what it is that we share is?
Marie Groover (54:17.807)
And by that, mean like, do people share their offerings? Do they share what they're doing? Do they show what they believe? what should people be sharing? And I say this because I also see this thing that happens. And I'm curious because you're a thousand times more of an expert than I will ever be. Where like some of my clients actually will do this where they just share things about random things, but like maybe don't connect the dots back to what's happening and what they're supposed to be doing.
And so I'm wondering like, is there a best practice? Is there something that you think about? Is there something that you would guide someone to sharing, um, as they get started in there? Yeah, I think you have to have a mission like a V for the Fox. The mission is helping you on your track to financial freedom. So everything, most everything I've gotten to a place where I do have a larger following. So sometimes if I want to post a thirst trap, I but
the majority of your content should relate back to that mission. And it's not all about you. I think that's something that creators and business owners and freelancers and entrepreneurs and all of the people wearing all the hats forget. It's not about you. It's what you can provide them. It's what problem do you solve? How do you make their life easier, better, worth more?
more livable. And so I would, would try to connect that back to your mission. I mean, what sets your soul on fire and what can you offer other people? That's really always been the idea behind my most viral content and all seven years of me creating content.
Um, and why I have clients, it's always been, I provide a service for you so that you can live a better life. And through that, I provide education for other people so that they can win with money and like summit that peak of financial freedom. So that would be my advice is, is show up consistently for the people that need to hear your voice.
Marie Groover (56:40.234)
Again, it's not about you. It's what they need to hear. What can you offer them? What is your voice and your story and your mission? them show up consistently for the people who need you because they do need you. Understand that your market might be saturated, but you're the only one with your voice. If I started my financial journey now, I would look at the field and be like, there are literally a hundred thousand accounts. Like, I don't know, I shouldn't do this, but that's not the case. No one has my voice.
So start now and just be consistent. And what can you offer people and focus on that? So that would be my advice. I love this so much. Like you are making my heart sing right now because one of my offers have to do this shameless plug is literally a three hour session, finding your purpose. It's like, it's like outlining and understanding very clearly what your mission is, like what you are here to do, what your mission is, how you achieve it.
and what you can offer to the world in achievement of it, right? In the fulfillment of it. But I think this is so important. I try to stress this to my people, but I'm not like a business or financial or like social media guru in any way, or form, but it's something that has, I would say too, has been the root of any of the success that I've had has been connecting myself to my mission, my purpose, why I'm here, which is always so much greater.
than who we are. And so I loved so much that you said, even in sharing our content, it's not all about you, right? Like, and I think people get this, like people get confused with this because we see influencers out there who are sharing so much of their life and what they're doing. But ultimately, like when we follow people, it's like, of course we want to know like how people live and what's going on, right? But typically we follow people because we're getting something, right? Like, what is it that we're getting? What is it that we're looking for?
I love that it's like, is it that you're giving? What are you contributing? What are you contributing to your movement, to your mission? How are you calling your people in? Yeah. People have asked me like, how do you manage being so vulnerable and wide open? it really, people come into my DMs and like, really seemed like you're exactly what you portray online. Like it seems like you're really just telling people everything.
Marie Groover (59:04.664)
I'm like, yeah, you could probably ask me what sex position I like. And I would answer like, but the reason I am like that is because I masked for so long and because I was just, felt suffocated and I felt like I wasn't able to use my voice. And so I got out of that and I don't share all of my mental health struggles for me. I don't share my Wiccan journey for me.
I don't share my sexual assault or my abuse or any of my bad shit for me. I share it because I get messages every week saying, because of you, I decided to leave my abusive partner. Because of you, I decided to open a Roth IRA and invest in my future. Because of you, I completed my debt-free journey and I'm moving on to the next stage of financial independence. Because of you, I went to therapy and I sought help instead of killing myself.
Like that is what I do it for. It has nothing to do with me. And I just, I know that not everybody can be as out loud as me, which is why I scream louder because there are women that are in domestic violence situations that can't be open about it. There are people that can't be open about their bisexuality. There are people that can't do what I do. And so I think people sometimes think that influencers and me, V.Fruitt-Gilfax,
is attention seeking or are attention seeking or they're very narcissistic or full of themselves. And I just want to say like, anything I share online isn't for the benefit of myself. It's for the benefit of the Fox den, for the benefit of people that can't speak or need to hear what I'm having to say. And that really is the reason that's my mission is to help you. And I feel like more companies, more people need to have that soul.
So if you take away anything from this podcast episode, it's that you need to inject soul into whatever you're doing. Because the success will follow. Yeah. my goodness. You're like.
Marie Groover (01:01:19.978)
First of all, I almost started crying. was like fighting back tears. Secondly, TCP's mission is to awaken the soul in business, by the way. So I love, love that. Another shameless plug. But also, yeah, it's so, my goodness. I'm just so proud and like honored to hear you share this because it is, it's so important. And the thing that I see too with people is we all have so much to say and to share.
And oftentimes because of conditioning, course, we keep ourselves really small and quiet and we forget that when we share it, really isn't about us, right? Because you being vulnerable does nothing for you, actually. It does nothing for you other than like put you in situations that could maybe feel even scary or get like super trolled. But like it does everything for the person who's able to hear and listen to you. And I love that you said too,
even if you were to start all over again right now today, you would still start because there's no one else on the planet that is you and that has your voice. And I think this is true of everyone and anyone who's listening, like we all have something to say and it needs to be said, not for us, like not even for our own healing, but for the healing of the world, for the person that's gonna listen and connect to it and like change their life because of it, right?
which we'll never know. Like that's the beautiful thing, especially with your work. You have, I think like 20,000 followers. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, like people are, and it's like, think about that amount of people and then the people beyond even that amount of people that your work touches. And then the people beyond that, it's like generations beyond what you'll ever be able to see. So it's like, you're planting all of these seeds into the world and you will never even know the impact that you bring, right? Like,
For every person that DMS you, there's probably 20 or 50 people who are impacted just as deeply who will never say anything. So I just think it's so beautiful and such a important Testament as to why we have to speak our truth and share our stories. Yeah. I I spent years not do not being able to do it fully. And so now I just want to encourage everybody to take advantage if they can. I love it.
Marie Groover (01:03:44.07)
thank you so much. Okay, hold on. What else? I know we're over our time. Okay, so I have, I have two questions. I was gonna ask you if spirituality has a place in finance, but you're like, totally making a place for it. So I think that's really great. Conscious wealth, what does conscious wealth mean to you? goodness. That's a really good question. I think really consciousness and being intentional is
one and the same. think that you need to be intentional about why you're creating wealth and not just focus on the wealth. I think I fell down. It's a slippery slope, especially when you're starting and you become as obsessed with money as I was. It's really easy to just focus on the numbers, focus on the data, the spreadsheets, the stock market, whatever you're into. It's so easy to just be like,
I need to hit this number and this number and my net worth needs to be that number. And it's like, it's not about the wealth and it never ever will be. And if it is for you, you're going to have a very miserable existence. It's about freedom. It's about time. It's about options. It's about love and opportunity and happiness. When they say wealth can't buy happiness, they're full of shit. It's true.
because your intention behind your wealth building is what matters. And if happiness is that, then money can buy happiness. You need to be intentional with your wealth and not just save or invest or spend just to do those things. They need to align with your mission, your higher purpose and what you really want your dreams to be. So that's conscious wealth building. That's the...
basis behind empathy-based budgeting as well, which is something that I practice and something that I try to teach others is you need to give yourself grace. You need to understand that you're gonna make money mistakes. You're gonna need to understand that there is intrinsic shame behind money and how you grew up in financial trauma and that everybody has a different story with money, but we can all come together and create a new narrative for ourselves with new intention and new consciousness. So.
Marie Groover (01:06:02.318)
That is, that's what I would say that is. that is so beautiful. It's, it's such a, yeah, I love this so much. I have a coach that actually says, like money is not good or bad. It's a neutral amplifier. Right? So exactly what you're saying, it's like the intention that's behind the money is what matters. It's not the money itself. And you're so right. It is this slippery slope. Cause I think once we start to really focus it on the numbers.
Just like in the corporate world, by the way, we can get so caught up in the numbers. Like it's just like, what are the numbers? What are the numbers? What are the numbers? Let's like get them as high as we possibly can. But it's like at what cost, right? Like if we, if we started this journey for freedom, how free are we really, if we're tied to the spreadsheet, like 24 hours a day, maybe that's not so free, right? I have a saying, so many sayings in this podcast. like it. It's kind of intense, but.
A hammer can be used to build things or bludgeon things. money is the same way. Money can be used to start a war or to build homes for the houseless. It's the same thing. So you have to be aware of your intention behind how you use that tool. That's all it is. It's money and debt are morally neutral. It's about what you choose to do with it. Okay. So let's say,
Someone is out there. Multiple people are out there. I already know that this is going to be the case who are, who really want to build more wealth, to have more freedom, potentially to start their own business, to live life on their own terms. What would you suggest or where would you suggest they start? Well, I would say, hello people. it's nice to meet you. You should go to my page, Instagram at V V E E frugal Fox. I talk about.
all the things that we talked about today. And I also talk about actionable wealth building tips, debt payoff tips, investing, saving. I would say if you're really serious about buying back your freedom, you're gonna have to increase your income. You're gonna have to spend less. You're gonna have to budget. Sorry, it's the B word. I know everybody. If you wanna call it a spending plan, go for it. It doesn't matter.
Marie Groover (01:08:24.467)
but you're gonna have to take responsibility and ownership of your money and really feel that power that it can provide you. And over on my Instagram page, on my blog, Vfrugalfox.com, I have multiple resources for you to start learning how to do that and start learning how to use money the way that you wanna use it with the intentions that you wanna use it for. Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening to the Spiritual 9to5 podcast with myself, Marie from The Corporate Psychic. Save and follow for more wisdom. If this work resonates, please share it with someone who may connect and rate the show. Reach out with any questions or topic requests. You can find me at hello at thecorppsychic.com. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at thecorppsychic. And I would love for you to join our community for courses, containers,
discounts and live events. Our next masterclass is on April 12th and it's titled Spiritual Excellence in Business. The community is called TCP Community and Courses and you can find it at community.thecorppsychic.com. And if you want to go big on you, reach out. We've got some really exciting opportunities and I would love to work with you. Wherever you are, whatever is on your mind, I hope to meet again, maybe in the next episode right here.
I'm honoring you and with gratitude, good day
